nazim xikmet.jpg


Culture and art may bridge the gap and bring us closer.

I would say, along with their art works, memories remain enriched with some of the most intense forms of art that include both poetry and music which  help to bring out the best out of human beings. 

Generations are defined by arts they create. .

Technology and science certainly grow exponentially with no limit which no one can predict the impact it will have on humanity.

But art is timeless, similar  emotion are experienced when  reading ancient love poems from Lesbos Island, by Sappho (620 B.C),  ancient tragedies by Sophocles (Electra, 410 B.C.) with emotions experienced when reading later or contemporary writers and  poets such as of Victor Hugo,  le misserables, 1862 ), Shakespeare Amlet 1564 , Elytis Greek poet for Aegean,  Nobel winner 1979, Seferis Greek from Smyrna Literature Nobel winner 1963 , without necessarily dealing with the same subject.

I wish we could also listen to music from all corners of the earth and from different periods.

I am also similarly touched when reading   texts of Nasyid – Ahmed Bukhatir or Nazim Hikmet or listening to music by Manos Loizos on poems from the alboom  «Letters to the beloved», written in Prousa prison, by Nazim Hikmet

 This poetry, combined with Music composed by Manos Loisos and the translation from Ritsos, constructs bridges to cover great distances in time, as well as distances among nations, even differences in  political convictions and different points of view.

These art creations bring closer, friends with enemies, freedom fighters with  dictators, judges with convicts, oppressed with oppressors.

Yet, how can I bridge the gaps, or compromise between fundamental human differences, in values and approaches, such as  sentiment and logic, love and self-sacrifice, love for one’s country and globalization reality, love and pain of disappointment, purity and compromise? Fanaticism and faith?   Mediocrity and excellence? Equality and Diversity?  A Left-wing populist idealist and an unsuspecting naive democrat?

How can I differentiate between Nazim Hikmet, an unconventional political extremist and Dionysios Solomos, a leading, but conventional national poet? Or Beethoven a giant composer in Classical music  and Vamvakaris, an original composer of rebellious music?

How do I compromise between fighting spirit for independence and the conformity of a middle class individual?

 In the end, only the creations that a person have managed to deliver to society will remain. 

You need to listen to the poems Nazim Hikmet wrote during his imprisonment.

All of us, sooner or later will depart from this world, but if we leave something behind, such as Mano’s music and Nazim’s poetry, that will be enough.

A quote in Turkish follows, that is not an exact translation, probably because the famous Greek poet Ritsos was influenced by Nazim’s real story and wanted to pass his own personal message.

Bugün pazar.
Bugün beni ilk defa güneşe çıkardılar.
Ve ben ömrümde ilk defa gökyüzünün
bu kadar benden uzak
bu kadar mavi
bu kadar geniş olduğuna şaşarak
kımıldamadan durdum.
Sonra saygıyla toprağa oturdum,
dayadım sırtımı duvara.
Bu anda ne düşmek dalgalara,
bu anda ne kavga, ne hürriyet, ne karım.
Toprak, güneş ve ben…

Greek composer Manos Loizos regarded his music composition for Nazim’s album of poems «Letters to my beloved», translated in Greek by Yiannis Ritsos, as his top life work..


 Note: This post caused some reactions in the F / B that highlights some of the political and cultural dimensions. In particular, I find interesting the remarks made by Sukan Gurkaynak a Turkish friend in f/b, who said :

“I think Greek is more poetic than Turkish. That is why good Turkish poetry is in Persian or the persianised Ottoman language”

That puzzles me. How can I explain to Sukan that the first historical and literary works from antiquity, more than 3,000 years ago, were poetic like the works Iliad and Odyssey of Homer, where even the written and spoken words of the ancient Greek language had vowels that emphasized the rhythm and poeticism of the speech itself, (Short and long vowels )  This is also an indication of the level of superiority of the language, indicating cultural depth as well as the influence and contribution that the Greek language had to global cultural diversity and evolution.

Discussion in f/b reflecting political implications :

Sukan Gurkaynak Atatürk put him in jail because he was producing propaganda for Stalin.

Nick Kouzos I understand but this is the point .I am trying to make. I am anything else. but a communist. I am trying to pass a message over and above politics, Nationalism and conflicts that made the 20th century a hell to live in. I am not a supporter of his ideology still his poetry is very sensitive. We need to overcome our enemies. I will translate my comments from  Greek.

Sukan Gurkaynak Nick Kouzos The Stalin he loved invaded Poland. The NKVD murdered 15000 officers of the Polish army. He was producing propaganda for those people. So the Turkish officers put

Nick Kouzos I totally agree with you but still Comunists are a legal party in Greece. I am not a supporter of Stalin and I am totally against Stalin-ism but Nazim was a poet, most Greek poets are leftist and a lot are communists, not Stalinists.

Sukan Gurkaynak Nick Kouzos The Turkish left never understood what was wrong with Stalinism. After the Russians gave up they started calling themselves liberals, some like former (communist) labor party MP Cetin Altan claiming that was the same thing as Stalinism. Most of them are idiots including Nazim. I know his grand nephew, forget the family.

Sukan Gurkaynak Nick Kouzos There is a fascist Turkish poet Kisakürek. A nut. Erdogan loves him. they name all possible things after him. Forget most poets. They are people who cannot make money in a decent job.

Nick Kouzos I agree in a political sense and I am against Fascists as well but I love poetry

Sukan Gurkaynak I think Greek is more poetic than Turkish. That is why good Turkish poetry is in persian or the persianised Ottoman language.

Nick Kouzos I understand.

Nick Kouzos Nazim was finally executed, wasn’t he?

Sukan Gurkaynak Nick Kouzos No. He was released from jail and went to Moscow. he lived there until his natural death in 1963. His grave is in a Moscow  cemetery.




nazim xikmet.jpg

Θα έλεγα μαζί με τα κείμενα μένουν οι αναμνήσεις που επενδύονται με τις ποιο έντονες μορφές  τέχνης που είναι τόσο η ποίηση όσο και η μουσική.

Οι γενιές χαρακτηρίζονται από τις τέχνες που δημιούργησαν και αφήνουν πίσω τους αφού φύγουν.

 Η τεχνολογία και οι επιστήμες  ασφαλώς αναπτύσσονται εκθετικά και κανείς δεν μπορεί να προβλέψει τις επιπτώσεις που θα έχουν στον άνθρωπο. Ούτε και τα όρια της εξέλιξης που θα επιφέρουν .

Η τέχνη όμως είναι διαχρονική, την ίδια συγκίνηση αισθάνεται ο άνθρωπος διαβάζοντας κείμενα  της Σαπφώ, η των αρχαίων τραγωδών με τα σύγχρονα κείμενα του Ούγκο, η του Σαίξπηρ, του Ελύτη και του Σεφέρη, χωρίς κατ’ ανάγκη να πραγματεύονται το ίδιο θέμα.

Μακάρι να είχαμε και την δυνατότητα να ακούσουμε και την μουσική από όλες τις   γωνιές της  γης και τις διαφορετικές περιόδους.

Με συγκινούν ταυτόχρονα τα κείμενα και η μουσική του Nasyid – Ahmed Bukhatir η του Nazim Hikmet με μουσική Μανου Λοϊζου

‘Γράμματα στην αγαπημένη, μέσα από την φυλακή της Προύσας, Ναζιμ Χικμετ

Μονάκριβή μου ἐσὺ στὸν κόσμο
μοῦ λὲς στὸ τελευταῖο σου γράμμα:
«πάει νὰ σπάσει τὸ κεφάλι μου, σβήνει ἡ καρδιά μου,
Ἂν σὲ κρεμάσουν, ἂν σὲ χάσω θὰ πεθάνω».

Θὰ ζήσεις, καλή μου, θὰ ζήσεις,
Ἡ ἀνάμνησή μου σὰν μαῦρος καπνὸς
θὰ διαλυθεῖ στὸν ἄνεμο.
Θὰ ζήσεις, ἀδελφή με τὰ κόκκινα μαλλιὰ τῆς καρδιᾶς μου
Οἱ πεθαμένοι δὲν ἀπασχολοῦν πιότερο ἀπό ῾να χρόνο
τοὺς ἀνθρώπους τοῦ εἰκοστοῦ αἰώνα.

Ὁ θάνατος
Ἕνας νεκρὸς ποὺ τραμπαλίζεται στὴν ἄκρη τοῦ σκοινιοῦ
σὲ τοῦτον ῾δῶ τὸ θάνατο δὲν ἀντέχει ἡ καρδιά μου.
Μὰ νά ῾σαι σίγουρη, πολυαγαπημένη μου,
ἂν τὸ μαῦρο καὶ μαλλιαρὸ χέρι ἑνὸς φουκαρᾶ ἀτσίγγανου
περάσει στὸ λαιμό μου τὴ θηλειὰ
ἄδικα θὰ κοιτᾶνε μὲς στὰ γαλάζια μάτια τοῦ Ναζὶμ νὰ δοῦν τὸ φόβο.
Στὸ σούρπωμα τοῦ στερνοῦ μου πρωινοῦ
θὰ δῶ τοὺς φίλους μου καὶ σένα.
Καὶ δὲ θὰ πάρω μαζί μου κάτου ἀπὸ τὸ χῶμα
παρὰ μόνο τὴν πίκρα ἑνὸς ἀτέλειωτου τραγουδιοῦ.

Γυναίκα μου
Μέλισσά μου μὲ τὴ χρυσὴ καρδιὰ
Μέλισσά μου μὲ τὰ μάτια πιὸ γλυκὰ ἀπ᾿ τὸ μέλι
Τί κάθησα καὶ σοῦ ῾γραψα πὼς ζήτησαν τὸ θάνατό μου.

Αυτή, η ποίηση μαζί με την Μουσική Λοϊζου γεφυρώνει τις αποστάσεις του χρόνου, των Εθνών μεταξύ τους, και των διαφορετικών επιλογών πολιτικής. Αυτά τα λόγια ενώνουν τους αγωνιστές με τους δικτάτορες, τους δικαστές με τους κατάδικους, τους καταπιεσμένους με τους δυνάστες.

Αλλά πώς να γεφυρώσω την απόσταση του συναισθήματος από την λογική, της αγάπης από την αυτοθυσία, της φιλοπατρίας από την διεθνοποίηση, της θυσίας  από την λογική; Του φυσικού θανάτου από την τεχνική παράταση της ζωής; Του έρωτα από τον πόνο της απογοήτευσης, της καθαρότητα από τον συμβιβασμό; Tου φανατισμού από την πραγματική πίστη; Της αγνής μετριότητας από την αριστεία; Της ισότητας από την διαφορετικότητα; Του αριστερού λαικού ιδεαλιστή από τον μικροαστό ανυποψύαστο και αφελή δημοκράτη;

Τον  ΝαζΊμ Χικμέτ από τον Διονύσιο Σολομό ; Τον Μπετόβεν από τον Βαμβακάρη;

Της αγωνιστικότητας από την συμβατικότητα.

Στο τέλος μένουν μόνο τα κείμενα και τα έργα που κατάφερες να κάνεις, αυτά θα μείνουν, μαζί με τους…. Οκτώ πραξικοπηματίες φυγάδες που διέφυγαν από την Τουρκία κατα το πραξηκόπημα! Πρέπει να ακούσετε τα ποιήματα του Ναζιμ Χικμετ, είναι επίκαιρο.

Όλοι φεύγουμε νωρίς, αν όμως αφήσουμε κάτι, σαν τον Μάνο και τον Ναζίμ, αυτό είναι αρκετό.

Ένα απόσπασμα στα Τουρκικά που όμως δεν είναι ακριβής μετάφραση, πιθανώς ο Ρίτσος να είχε επιρεαστεί από την πραγματική ιστορία:

Bugün pazar.
Bugün beni ilk defa güneşe çıkardılar.
Ve ben ömrümde ilk defa gökyüzünün
bu kadar benden uzak
bu kadar mavi
bu kadar geniş olduğuna şaşarak
kımıldamadan durdum.
Sonra saygıyla toprağa oturdum,
dayadım sırtımı duvara.
Bu anda ne düşmek dalgalara,
bu anda ne kavga, ne hürriyet, ne karım.
Toprak, güneş ve ben…

Μάνος Λοϊζος θεωρούσε ως έργο ζωής του τον δίσκο Γράμματα στην αγαπημένη, με μελοποιημένα ποιήματα του Ναζίμ Χικμέτ σε ελληνική απόδοση του Γιάννη Ρίτσου.

Ο Ναζίμ Χικμετ τελικά απελευθερώθηκε από τις Τουρκικές φυλακές και αναχώρισε για την Μόσχα όπου έζησε μέχρι το 1963 οπότε πέθανε από φυσικό θάνατο. Ετάφει στο νεκροταφείο της Μόσχας.


Σημείωση: Η ανάρτηση αυτή προξένησε ορισμένες αντιδράσεις στο F/B που υπογραμμίζει μερικές από τις πολιτικές και πολιτισμικές διαστάσεις. Ιδιαίτερα βρίσκω ενδιαφέρουσα την παρατήρηση του  Sukan Gurkaynak  που λέει ότι: “I think Greek is more poetic than Turkish. That is why good Turkish poetry is in Persian or the persianised Ottoman language”

Αυτό με προβληματίζει. Πώς να εξηγήσω στον Sukan ότι τα πρώτα ιστορικά και λογοτεχνικά κείμενα από την αρχαιότητα, πάνω από 3.000 χρόνια παλαιότερα, ήταν ποιητικά όπως η Ιλιάδα και η Οδύσσεια του Ομήρου και μάλιστα ακόμα και η γραφή και ομιλία της αρχαίας Ελληνικής γλώσσας είχε φωνήεντα που τόνιζαν την ρυθμικότητα και ποιητικότητα της ίδιας της ομιλίας, (Βραχέα και μακρά φωνήεντα ). Είναι και αυτό μία ένδειξη της επιρροής στην παγκόσμια πολιτισμική διαφορετικότητα.    

 Παραθέτω αμιγή την ανταλλαγή των αντιπαραθέσεων στο  f/b:

Sukan Gurkaynak Atatürk put him in jail because he was producing propaganda for Stalin.

Nick Kouzos I understand but this is the point .I am trying to make. I am anything else. but a communist. I am trying to pass a message over and above politics, Nationalism and conflicts that made the 20th century a hell to live in. I am not a supporter of his ideology still his poetry is very sensitive. We need to overcome our enemies. I will translate my comments in Greek.

Sukan Gurkaynak Nick Kouzos The Stalin he loved invaded Poland. The NKVD murdered 15000 officers of the Polish army. He was producing propaganda for those people. So the Turkish officers put him in jail. His god Stalin would have had him shot!

Nick Kouzos I totally agree with you but still Comunists are a legal party in Greece. I am not a supporter of Stalin and I am totally against Stalin-ism but Nazim was a poet, most Greek poets are leftist and a lot are communists, not Stalinists.

Sukan Gurkaynak Nick Kouzos The Turkish left never understood what was wrong with Stalinism. After the Russians gave up they started calling themselves liberals, some like former (communist) labor party MP Cetin Altan claiming that was the same thing as Stalinism. Most of them are idiots including Nazim. I know his grand nephew, forget the family.

Sukan Gurkaynak Nick Kouzos There is a fascist Turkish poet Kisakürek. A nut. Erdogan loves him. they name all possible things after him. Forget most poets. They are people who cannot make money in a decent job.

Nick Kouzos I agree in a political sense and I am against Fascists as well but I love poetry

Sukan Gurkaynak I think Greek is more poetic than Turkish. That is why good Turkish poetry is in persian or the persianised Ottoman language.

Nick Kouzos I understand.

Nick Kouzos Nazim was was finally executed, wasn’t he?

Sukan Gurkaynak Nick Kouzos No. He was released from jail and went to Moscow. he lived there until a natural death in 1963. He is in a Moscow cemetery.


Ottoman Empire expantion.jpg

Είναι εξαιρετικά ανησυχητική η αυξανόμενη επιθετικότητα της Τουρκίας στο Αιγαίο και  την Ανατολική Μεσόγειο στην ΑΟΖ της Κύπρου. Υπάρχουν καθημερινές παραβιάσεις του Ελληνικού εναέριου χώρου που αναχαιτίζονται από την Ελληνική αεροπορία γεγονός που αυξάνει τον κίνδυνο θερμού επεισοδίου, αλλά και επιβαρύνει σοβαρά  τις αμυντικές δαπάνες της χώρας σε περίοδο κρίσης. Είναι συνεπώς εύλογο να με απασχολεί αυτή η εξόχως επικίνδυνη και επιβαρυντική για την οικονομία κατάσταση.

Το τελευταίο διάστημα ανταλλάσσω απόψεις στο Facebook, σχετικά με την τρέχουσα αυξανόμενη επιθετικότητα της Τουρκίας τόσο στο Αιγαίο  όσο και στην Κύπρο αλλά και στην Δυτική Θράκη.

Πολλοί από τους φίλους αναρωτήθηκαν γιατί ασχολούμαι με την  ανταλλαγή απόψεων, και μάλιστα να δημοσιοποιώ τις απόψεις ενός ατόμου, Τουρκικής καταγωγής και Εθνικότητας με δηλωμένη θέση εναντίων των Ελληνικών θέσεων αλλά και των θέσεων των Ηνωμένων Εθνών όσο και της Ευρωπαϊκής Ένωσης αλλά και του Δυτικού Κόσμου γενικά.

Είναι προφανές ότι θεωρώ ότι είναι σημαντικό σε ένα πολιτισμένο περιβάλλον να επικοινωνούν οι άνθρωποι  προκειμένου να κατανοούν ο ένας την θέση του άλλου.

Από την επικοινωνία αυτή πιστεύω ότι απέκτησα μία ευρύτερη αντίληψη των ιστορικών γεγονότων και του τρόπου προσέγγισης από την Τουρκική πλευρά που μου προσέφερε πληρότητα για τα γεγονότα, χωρίς βέβαια να αλλάζει την άποψή μου για την γενοκτονία που πραγματοποιήθηκε σε βάρος των Ελλήνων και άλλων χριστιανικών πληθυσμών που ζούσαν αιώνες κάτω από την Οθωμανική αυτοκρατορία, με βοήθησε όμως να καταλάβω πως η Τουρκία ανέπτυξε την ψυχολογία του καταφρονημένου Μουσουλμάνου από την συμπεριφορά του Δυτικού κόσμου.

Βέβαια το συμπέρασμα μου είναι αρνητικό όσον αφορά την Ελλάδα δεδομένου ότι διαπιστώνω ότι η μέχρι στιγμής ακολουθούμενη στρατηγική των Ελληνικών κυβερνήσεων ήταν σαφώς λανθασμένη, πιστεύοντας ότι η είσοδος της Τουρκίας στην Ευρωπαϊκή Ένωση  θα έλυνε και τα Ελληνοτουρκικά προβλήματα.

Δυστυχώς από την μέχρι στιγμής ανταλλαγής απόψεων ο βαθύτερος στόχος τόσο της Τουρκίας όσο και της υπόλοιπης Ευρώπης ήταν να συμβιώσουν με βάση ορισμένα οικονομικά συμφέροντα χωρίς να πλησιάσουν η μία την άλλη πολιτισμικά η γεωπολιτικά.

Αυτό αφήνει την Ελλάδα εκτεθειμένη στις ορέξεις της Τουρκίας που ουσιαστικά εξακολουθεί να συμπεριφέρεται σαν το καταφρονημένο από την δύση  κράτος  που ενδιαφέρεται να την διαμελίσει όπως προσπάθησε να κάνει παλαιότερα μετά τον Πρώτο Παγκόσμιο πόλεμο.

Αυτό σε συνδυασμό με τον Νέο Οθωμανισμό και μεγαλοϊδεατισμό της Τουρκίας που πιστεύει ότι αδικήθηκε από τις διεθνείς συνθήκες αλλά και το δίκαιο της Θαλάσσης αλλά και την πίστη ότι το διεθνές δίκαιο, το δικαστήριο της Χάγης,  ο ΟΗΕ και η Ευρωπαϊκή Ένωση αποτελούν όργανα της Δύσης, δεν δεσμεύεται σε τίποτα όσον αφορά τα σύνορα, προς το Αιγαίο αλλά και προς την Ανατολή.

Στην ουσία βρίσκετε σε διάσταση με την Αμερική και τους συμμάχους της στην Ευρώπη και το ΝΑΤΟ και πιστεύει ότι αυτή η κατάσταση έχει αλλάξει από την πτώση της Σοβιετικής Ένωσης και του ψυχρού πολέμου.

Μόνο έτσι εξηγείται η αναβίωση της Εχθρότητας προς την Δύση και την Ελλάδα την οποία θεωρούν όργανο της Δύσης.

Είναι φανερό ότι θεωρεί το μισό Αιγαίο δικό της και την Ελλάδα σαν κατακτητή με δικαιώματα που δεν είναι κατοχυρωμένα ούτε πιστεύει ότι η καταφυγή σε διεθνή δικαστήρια θα την βοηθήσουν εφόσον αυτά ελέγχονται από την Δύση.

Όσον αφορά την Δυτική Θράκη και την Μουσουλμανική μειονότητα αποτελούν τον προμαχώνα για την επόμενη φάση προσάρτησης της περιοχής στην Τουρκία διότι αυτοί είναι τα… “αδέρφια” τους που προσβλέπουν στην προστασία της… ‘Μητέρας’ Τουρκίας.

Γενικότερα η αναθεωρητική κατεύθυνση που παίρνει σήμερα η Τουρκία, ανεξάρτητα εσωτερικής πολιτικής κατάστασης, εγκυμονεί πραγματικούς κίνδυνους           να βρεθεί η Ελλάδα στο μέσον μίας παρόμοιας θέσεις που βρέθηκε το 1922  με τους ρόλους των διαφόρων κρατών, Αμερικής και Ευρώπης που αντιστοιχούν την ‘Αντάντ’ (Λέξη που προήλθε εκ του γαλλικού Entente) του Πρώτου Παγκοσμίου πολέμου.

Οι συνθήκες βέβαια σήμερα είναι αρκετά διαφορετικές, αλλά υπάρχουν και πολλές ομοιότητες.

Η οικονομική κρίση στην Ελλάδα αλλά και η ανάπτυξη της πολεμικής βιομηχανίας της Τουρκίας παίζουν καθοριστικό ρόλο. Όμως το σημαντικότερο είναι ότι το πραγματικό παιχνίδι παίζεται αλλού, και αφορά στις σχέσεις και στα συγκρουόμενα συμφέροντα μεταξύ Ρωσίας, Ευρωπαϊκής Ένωσης  και Ηνωμένων Πολιτειών .

Η ισορροπία μεταξύ αυτών των δυνάμεων  θα καθορίσει και το μέλλον της Ελλάδας γιατί θεωρώ ότι η απευθείας προσέγγιση της Ελλάδας με την Τουρκία είναι μία ουτοπία.

Ίσως αυτός είναι και ο λόγος που μία Αριστερή κυβέρνηση στην Ελλάδα έχει αναγκαστικά προσαρμοστεί σε ρόλους που παραδοσιακά δεν ακολουθούσε παλαιότερα.

Αυτό καθιστά τις αποφάσεις της Ελλάδας άμεσα επιτακτικές και θέτει όλα τα θέματα πολιτικά και οικονομικά σε δεύτερη προτεραιότητα σε σχέση με την προσπάθεια επίλυσης του προβλήματος των Ελληνοτουρκικών σχέσεων που σήμερα βρίσκονται στο χειρότερο σημείο.

Ποια είναι λοιπόν η θέση της Ελλάδας απέναντι στην ποιο ισχυρή Τουρκία;

Όταν ο Ερντογάν κέρδισε τον άτυπο εσωτερικό πόλεμο με το βαθύ κεμαλικό κράτος και κυριάρχησε στην τουρκική πολιτική σκηνή, άρχισε να ξεδιπλώνει τη δική του ατζέντα. Δρομολόγησε όχι μόνο την ισλαμοποίηση της Τουρκίας, αλλά και το σχέδιό του για πολιτική αυτονόμηση από τη Δύση.

Οι Αμερικανοί και οι Ευρωπαίοι άρχισαν να συνειδητοποιούν ότι ο νεοοθωμανισμός του Ερντογάν δεν ήταν αυτό που νόμιζαν. Όταν, λοιπόν, η Τουρκία άρχισε να διολισθαίνει, άρχισαν και οι Δυτικοί να την βλέπουν διαφορετικά.


Τυπικά δεν έχει αλλάξει τίποτα. Η Τουρκία παραμένει χώρα-μέλος του ΝΑΤΟ και υποψήφια προς ένταξη στην ΕΕ. Στην πραγματικότητα, όμως, έχει αλλάξει ο τρόπος, με τον οποίο οι Δυτικοί βλέπουν την Τουρκία. Η ευρωπαϊκή προοπτική της Τουρκίας είναι προσχηματική. Ούτε η ΕΕ θέλει την Τουρκία στους κόλπους της, αλλά ούτε και η Τουρκία είναι πια ένθερμη όσον αφορά την ένταξή της.

Η αλλαγή του τρόπου που οι Δυτικοί βλέπουν την Τουρκία αλλάζει και τον τρόπο που βλέπουν την Ελλάδα. Αυτό ισχύει κυρίως για τους Αμερικανούς, οι οποίοι έχουν πιο σφαιρική ματιά και όχι τη στενά οικονομίστικη ματιά της ΕΕ. Στην πραγματικότητα, η Ελλάδα  επανατοποθετείται στον γεωπολιτικό χάρτη. Αυτός είναι και ο φόβος της Τουρκίας. Μακάρι η Τουρκία να ήταν περισσότερο φιλική στην προσέγγισή της στις απαιτήσεις της απέναντι στην Ελλάδα και την Κύπρο για να μην την σπρώχνει με τον τρόπο αυτό στους παραδοσιακούς της συμμάχους.


Σε ξεχωριστή δημοσίευση Άρθρο στο ίδιο blog με το όνομα  THE MAIN REASON WHY GREECE’S EFFORT TO SURPASS THE CRISIS IS MADE IN VAIN υπάρχει μετάφραση στα Αγγλικά με ανταλλαγή απόψεων με Τούρκο φίλο που εκφράζει την Τουρκική άποψη με αντίστοιχες απαντήσεις





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Turkey’s growing aggression in the Aegean and the Eastern Mediterranean in the exclusive economic zone (EEZ) of Cyprus is extremely worrying. There are daily violations of Greek airspace suspended by the Greek Air Force, which increases the risk of a ‘hot’ episode, but also seriously damages the country’s defense spending in a period of crisis. It is therefore reasonable to be concerned with this extremely dangerous and aggravating situation for the economy.

Recently I have been exchanging views on Facebook about Turkey’s current growing aggression, both in the Aegean Sea and in Cyprus, as well as in Western Thrace.

Many of my friends wondered why I was engaging in an exchange of views, and even publicize the views of an individual of Turkish origin and nationality with a declared position against Greece as well as against United Nations, the European Union and institutions of the Western world in general.

It is obvious that I believe it is important, in a civilized environment, for people to communicate in order to understand each other’s point of view.

From this communication I believe that I have gained a wider understanding of the historical events and the way the Turkish side is thinking, without, of course, changing my view about the genocide that took place against the Greeks and other Christian populations, which lived centuries under the rules of Ottoman Empire. Nevertheless, this discussion helped me understand how Turkey developed the psychology of the “despised Muslim” due to the behavior of the Western world.  I must also admit that these arguments and exchange of information helped me recognize propaganda on both sides.

Unfortunately, as many people would say, it was obvious or made common sense that the deeper objective of both Turkey and the rest of EU was to collaborate on a number of common economic interests without a real intention to achieve cultural, or financial integration or establish common geopolitical objectives.

This leaves Greece exposed to the turmoil and the desires of Turkey, which basically continues to behave like the state-despised nation of West that is interested in splitting Turkey, as it tried to do after World War I.

This, in combination to Turkey’s New Ottomanism and megalomaniatism, which makes Turkey believe that it has been infringed by international treaties and the law of the sea, while also the belief that international law, the international Hague tribunal, the UN and the European Union are institutions controlled by the West, hence Turkey is not bound by anything in terms of expanding its border’s in the Aegean but also towards the East makes Turkey a difficult country to negotiate with.

In essence Turkey’s position is opposing, US and its allies in Europe and NATO. This relationship was basically changed since the fall of the Soviet Union and the end of the Cold War.

This is the only way to explain the revival of hostility towards the West including Greece, which they regard as an instrument of the West.

It is clear that Turkey’s current strategy is to consider half of Aegean as its own to make Greece appear as an intruder with no rights, nor does it believe that recourse to international courts will resolve any conflict since these institutions, according to its view, are controlled by the Western powers.

As far as Western Thrace and the Muslim minority is concerned, it becomes obvious that they are the bastion for the next phase of annexation of the region to Turkey because they are … their «brothers» who are looking to protection from.. “Mother” Turkey. This is definitely a shift in behavior from previous visits of Turkish politicians in West Thrace who were addressing the Muslim minority as Greek Muslims of Turkish origine, citizens of EU.

In general, the strategic direction Turkey is taking today, irrespective of its internal political situation, poses real risks for Greece to find itself in the midst of a similar situation found during 1922 with the roles of the various states, America and Europe, corresponding to the (Entente Cordiale) powers of France and Great Britain of the First World War.

The conditions, of course, are quite different today, yet there are many similarities.

The economic crisis in Greece as well as the development of Turkey’s defense industry play a decisive role. Yet the most important thing is that the real “power game” is played elsewhere, and it is in the relationships and conflicting interests among Russia, EU and US where a solution will be found.

The balance between these forces will also determine the future of Greece because, unfortunately, Greece’s direct approach to Turkey looks like a Utopia, under current conditions.

Perhaps this is the reason why a Left Government in Greece adapted to roles that, traditionally, did not follow in the past.

This makes Greece’s decisions urgent and puts all issues political and financial at a second priority in relation to its efforts to solve the problem of the Greek-Turkish relations that are currently at the worst point ever.

So what is Greece’s position versus a stronger Turkey?

When Erdogan won the informal inner war with the deep Kemalist state and dominated the Turkish political scene, he began to unfold his own agenda. He worked towards not only to Islamization of Turkey but also promoted his plan for political autonomy from the West.

The Americans and Europeans began to realize that Erdogan’s neo-Ottomanism was not what they thought. So when Turkey began to slip, the Westerners began to see it differently.

Typically, nothing has changed. Turkey remains a NATO member country and a candidate for EU membership. In reality, however, the way in which the Westerners see Turkey has changed. The European perspective of Turkey is pretentious and false. Neither does the EU want Turkey within its borders, but Turkey is no longer anxious about its membership.

Changing the way the Westerners see Turkey is changing the way they see Greece. This is especially true for the Americans, who have a more global look than the narrowly economical view of the EU. In fact, Greece is re-positioned on the geopolitical map. This is the fear of Turkey.

Maybe, if Turkey was friendlier with its demands towards Greece and Cyprus, would not push Greece in this way to rely on its traditional allies.

At this point it is interesting to include as an extract from the discussion that followed the publication of this article to appreciate the positioning of Turkish person who is also trying to defend the Turkish point of view:

Arguments exchanged between Sukan Gurkaynak and Nick Kouzos on the conflict

Sukan Gurkaynak Nick Kouzos  To improve Turkish Greek relations, you have to understand what really happened in history. I have written you the real population situation and losses based on Ottoman census statistics. The Turkish population losses in Greek occupied Anatolia 1 million were three times as high as Greek losses with 300000. Compare Greece in the 21st century cooking the books on financial data to grab other people’s money through the EU. In the 19th century they were cooking the books on demographical data to grab territories with Muslim majority populations, in Macedonia and Anatolia, after which they cooked the books to misrepresent their losses. Any dead is too much. But keep in mind, Turkish losses were people being murdered because Greek state policy was reducing Turkish population, Greek losses were people dying as the previous sufferers took revenge. Fact is, the Ottomans had as only major European State freedom of religion. Which is what Christianity survived in the Ottoman Empire whereas no pre-Christian religion survived in any Christian state in Europe including the previously Muslim majority territories invaded after 1800 in the Caucasus, Crimea and the Balkans- This was a concerted policy of eradicating the Muslims in Europe most of them the natives of the countries where they were living, who had preferred Islam when given the freedom to decide for themselves. So talking about Turkish invaders who were then pushed out is wrong. Turkey has around 50 to 150 different ethnic groups all of whom see themselves as Turks, the way Americans see themselves as Americans. Greece got her present territories as a beneficiary of this policy. In 1920 the effort to get more by erasing the Turks from the map by partitioning Anatolia between Greeks and Armenians failed. Treaties were signed defining the borders. This held until the cold war ended. After the end of the cold war we are seeing an effort to break up Turkey. Once more Greece thinks she can use the opportunity. It does not matter whether the left or the right runs the country. The Cyprus peace was made by Konstantin Karamanlis, the only real statesman Greece had in the second half of the 20th century, leader of the right in 1960 and destroyed by the left in 1963. The alternatives Greece has are respecting the status quo and living in peace or trying to expand their country by annexing the open seas which at this point belong to us all. Hiding behind the Western dominated UN, which we all remember did nothing to help the Bosnians Muslims of whom 250000 were murdered in the 1990ies with French and British troops assisting after which it authorized the invasion and murder of up to 4 Million Muslims in Iraq is for Turkey not convincing. The West dominates the World, that helps their fellow Christians the Greeks. Turkey is a country with a population of 85 Millions with an economy far more dynamic than Greece. The West might encourage Greece to a confrontation with Turkey to wear Turkey down, but they will not actually help them win a war. The West did try to get what it wanted, land for PKK-Kurds and Armenians and the Sea for the Greeks by using Islamists against the secularist elites. The secularist elites were in love with the status quo Lausanne treaty order, whereas Islamists dislike Lausanne, The hope was they would give up assets, now everyone can see, that went the wrong way. The West has a problem, they have created. This is comparable to the fiasco, Western colonial policies accomplished all over the Middle East. Greed without brains is a recipe for disaster.

Response from Nick Kouzos:

This sounds like a manifest of a Turkish-Eastern, one sided, biased, approach which is self-proven wrong by the international community, which is controlled by the West.

The West political and cultural status cannot be described as “Greed without brains and a recipe for disaster” Especially because it is exactly this attitude that brings disaster. West has values such as human rights, democratic values and many other principles in spite the fact that they are still in the process of evolution. Even the creation of EU and UN are still in a experimental stage but still they are centuries ahead of the way Turkey and many Eastern countries are thinking. Yes history is written by the winner but equally the feeling of the looser is not the basis for progressive thinking on the contrary is dominated by the complex of the looser, or other factors that they have to do with local traditions.

i.e. Turkey, which boycotts Eurovision from 2012, will not participate in its next event, considering that the international song contest is inappropriate for the young audience, according to TRT President Ibrahim Eren.

Greece has gained its independence fighting an Empire which behaved in a cruel way against humanity and Greeks.

The fact that you describe that Ottomans assimilated so many different national entities is a self-proven fallacy and an indication why Turkey is trying to prove that Ottomans inherited every civilization that ever existed in Asia Minor-Anatolia.

Turkey does not want to accept the link between Ancient and modern Greece. It is unacceptable for the Turk that this could ever happened so that a small nation could retain its identity national and cultural characteristics on the basis of which revived and claimed its independence fighting a mighty Ottoman empire.

You quote confrontations that happened in Europe against Muslims, for hundreds of years as a reason for Turkish rights to reprise.

I could quote historical crimes, since medieval times, against Greece.

The Venetians conquered parts of Greece and treated Greeks worst that Ottomans.

This does not give me the right to claim back land and sea in a revisionary strategy accusing the rest of the world for Greed. Is it Turkish Greed to claim Istanbul as Turkey and not Greek Byzantine.

All this has been settled with wars and nobody wants to bring it back.

This revisionary strategy that Turkey adopts so that wants to revive that the Greek islands are not Greek and Turkey needs to teach West nations to behave in a way that will allow an Ottoman revival and reprisal for all the bad Muslims suffered is very close to an Islamic threat.

It is only recently that Erdogan has announced that Turkey will do whatever it likes in the case of Eastern Mediterranean.

Erdogan, with his arrogance, said that Turkey will do what it wants and a new (Turkish) research vessel will be added to investigations into underground natural gas deposits in South Cyprus.

Obviously, Turkey is not in a position to fight together with Israel, Egypt, Cyprus, Greece and the United States.

Such a conflict would mean Turkey’s total end and its partition. This is something that personally I don’t want

The Turkish president has only to try to find out if the Eastern Mediterranean allies mean their words.

This arrogance is what can be called “Greed without brains and a recipe for disaster”.

As for Ottoman statics I have reasons to disclaim.

The Greek statistics is a totally different issue which I need a separate session to discuss with you. It is like the German war compensations or the loans made to Germany under the German occupation during the Second World War where Greece suffered 350.000 deaths.

Do you really believe that only 300.000 people died during the years 1914 -1922?

In any case the statistical numbers Ottomans are quoting are wrong, please remember that the total losses just for the Greeks from Pontos were 300.000.

Finally nobody is claiming that Aegean sea is not accessible to Turkey for commercial reasons, but the Greek islands is a different issue, and sending your air force is a different issue as well.

You are pushing Greece to make alliances with Egypt Israel and US. I am not so sure about the rest of Europeans.

Let us see which values and principles will survive in the next few years.

Unfortunately for Turkey the political system is not at its best. You may need west to help you return back to a democratic and stable state.


Sukan Gurkaynak Nick Kouzos At the time of Greek independence, the Philhellenes were expecting ancient Greece to be reborn when saved from the Turkish yoke. They were horrified by what the Greeks were actually doing and became convinced of a biological break between ancient and modern Greece. This is still the feeling in Germany. You would be offended if I wrote what one leading German daily wrote about that. Turks don’t care about ancient Greece. We are in love with Islamic civilization. If you are willing to read and discuss I will send you copies of one book about demography. The Ottoman statistics were an honest effort of the government to understand what they were governing. Greeks produced highly inflated figures f Greeks living in Anatolia and when they were not there propaganda claimed they had been killed. The West are the people who enslaved entire mankind in their colonies and destroyed ancient civilizations, including the Ottoman. We thought we were their allies in NATO but in 1963 when Greeks started butchering Turks on Cyprus they did not tell the Greeks to stop it. That was the beginning of the end of our confidence in the West. It is the West which has created the present state of affairs in Turkey and in no way are they ever going to help us. Greece would be foolish to trust an Egyptian-Israeli- US alliance against Turkey. Half a billion Muslims around Israel hate them they will not initiate hostilities against Turkey. Egypt is worthless as a military power and needs her army to keep political stability. The US will soon be involved in a confrontation with China and cannot add Turkey to her military challenges. I am no friend of the AKP regime in Turkey and will not defend their policies. The Ottoman Empire made no effort to assimilate anyone, that is why Greece has survived.

Response from Nick Kouzos:

I am really surprised that you quote German newspapers. If you care to to read what was happening in Turkey during the First World War regarding the financial situation you will observe that the Turkish economy was dominated by the Greek, Armenian, Juice people and companies mainly antagonizing German companies even in Banking, commerce and science, including doctors, lawyers, engineers, bankers etc. The Turks were mainly occupied with military activity. Germany was training and supporting the Turkish army. Even the Government matters such as accounting was maintained by Greeks. Most of the middle class was Greek, In addition to the army Turks were mainly agricultural occupations. This is the reason why Kemal wanted to eliminate the middle class and create a new pure Turkish middle class by eliminating the old one. Especially in Banking the Germans replaced Greek Bankers. It is not strange to listen to Germans talking against Greeks. They were antagonizing Greeks in the Ottoman Empire and the Balkans in general.

“It is worth emphasizing that 50% of the capital invested in industry of the Ottoman Empire, belonged to Greek minority. 

Also, out of the 18.063 trading companies operating in Turkey 46% belonged to Greeks, 23% to Armenians and 15%  to Muslims, 46% of the Banking sector belonged to Greeks. 

In high professional individuals, Greeks, were:  52% of doctors, 49% of the pharmacists, 52% of the Architects, 37% of engineers and 29% of solicitors.

Further, 528 from a total of 654 companies involved in wholesale trade belonged to Greeks.”


Even today I was finding that the real competition between investors in the Balkan countries was between German Greek and Turkish companies. I personally was working in Central Europe for Balkans for more than ten years in Banking and IT industry and I had the opportunity to experience this. So I am not surprised for the German statements. Germany has basically been benefited even by the Greek crisis. Germany is also the main supplier of arms (Submarines and other equipment.)

As for alliances, we are not seeking a war with Turkey, but what do you expect us to do, to give up and enjoy Turkish penetration and attacks as deep to the island of Naxos deep into Aegean sea close to the Greek mainland?

I don’t expect anything else from the Germans that have destroyed Greece during the First World War.

It is very ironic to say that Greece has survived due to Turks since you have destroyed the Byzantines and occupied the country for over 400 tears. You may be right we should be thankful for allowing us to survive as a nation! All this sounds ridiculous since there are only 1000 Greek left in Turkey while there are 150 000 Muslims in west Thrace. The numbers speak themselves.

I don’t expect Egypt or Israel to protect Greece. They will only protect their interest. Greece and Cyprus will defend itself. Greek Cypriots have never Butchered Turkish Cypriots, this is Turkish propaganda. But it has become obvious to me that there is no way that one can speak for justice and common sense. Unfortunately, this has been the problem for hundreds of years, it is strange if we are to find a solution now that Turkey has moved closer to a political crisis that is also leading to a financial crisis a fact that is making any negotiation even more difficult. This is why I spend so much time on this issue which is becoming of grave importance. You represent the biggest threat ever for the Greek nation

Also regarding your statistics they are a result of pure Propaganda.

Your numbers regarding massacres and Ottoman statistics are totally wrong My figure of 1 million killed is definitely smaller than the real number especially if you compare it with either the total population of Greeks at the time which was less than 4.5 million in the mainland and 2.5 m in Asia Minor As a proof I quote: The Black Book of the Pontian Central Council mentions on the genocide the following: «The massacred and in any case exterminated Greeks of the Pontus from 1914 to 1922 amount to the following numbers»: Amasia Region: 134.078, Rodopoli District: 17.479, Chaldeia Region – Kerasounta: 64,582, Neokesareia Region: 27,216, Region. Trebizond: 38,435, Cologne: 21,448: Total: 303,238 people ». Until the spring of 1924 the Pontians’ martyrdom included another 50,000 victims, the total number of Pontians who were assassinated by March 1924 was 353,000, more than 50% of the total population of the Pontians.
The genocide forced the Pontians to flee their homes and move to Greece, the USSR (where they were persecuted by the Stalinist regime during the interwar period), Iran, Syria, and elsewhere (Australia, USA).

The argument will never finish….

Nick Kouzos Markella I have been exchanging views with a number of Turks and I found that they are two types of Turks, the ones that love to approach Greeks especially those that their origin has been from Asia Minor and those that represent exactly the type of person Sukan is, I think it is important to understand the extend of their animosity «Keep your friends close and your enemies closer».



Sukan Gurkaynak
Sukan Gurkaynak Nick Kouzos So I am your enemy? I try to help you understand the real issues and you make me your enemy. That you very much. But one thing is right, the genocide survivors from Rumelia know the Greeks much better than the Anatolians.
Nick Kouzos
Nick Kouzos At the moment Greece is being ruined financially mainly due to the arms race which we could never win. I keep trying to get my figures right regarding the numbers of innocent victims at a particular period 1914 to 1922 and you are rejecting the validity of my figures. I am trying to isolate each part of the history separately.You don;t seem to appreciate that 1 million innocent people killed consisted 25% of the total Greek population of the Greek Nation. This is unquestionable. It also concists 50% of the Greeks of Pontos. This is not a war. this is a genocide. The numbers are relevant. You are referring to Muslim losses in a wider area. I don;t reject all the numbers you are quoting. These numbers were created in a wider area, not caused by Greeks. This is a background story. The reflection of past historic conflicts cannot be curried to present and cannot be used to establish new sovereignty.Turkey behaves as a real enemy at the moment. It is not you personally that you are enemy but the strategies that Turkey is following and the tactics like imprisoning young Greek soldiers under false pretenses,this is a hostile act. In any case the most important part in our discussion is to recognize the mistakes each side has made.Greece has been the party that lost the war during 1922. We have signed a treaty as a looser. We have lost 25% of our total population, you cannot expect Greeks to stop remembering this loss. The issue of Turkey’s position versus West is a much wider geopolitical and cultural issue, we cannot be responsible for such world wide issues. .

Υπάρχει πραγματική καθυστέρηση στον τρόπο που σκέπτονται οι δικοί μας ριζοσπάστες της αριστερής ιδεολογίας.

Με την φορολογία γίνεται αναδιανομή του εισοδήματος προς τα αδύνατα στρώματα.
Τα αδύνατα στρώματα θα αυξήσουνε την κατανάλωση.
Με την αύξηση της κατανάλωσης θα έρθει η ανάπτυξη.
Με την ανάπτυξη θα αυξηθούν οι μισθοί και οι θέσεις εργασίας.
Με την αύξηση των θέσεων εργασίας και των μισθών θα μειωθούν οι εισφορές και οι φόροι ενώ θα λυθεί το πρόβλημα των συντάξεων.
Με την ανάπτυξη θα αυξηθεί η παραγωγή.
Το πρόβλημα με τον συλλογισμό τους είναι ότι έχουν στερέψει το παραγόμενο προϊόν και έτσι αυτοί μοιράζουν αυτό που εξαφάνισαν!!!!! Θα το πάρουν από το μέλλον!!! Τι όμορφο αλλά ηλίθιο παραμύθι!!!

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Εσύ δρομέα της ζωής μη σταματάς για ν’ αναπολείς

Θα σε προλάβουν οι μορφές , αυτές που ύφανες για να ζεις.

Μορφές  χτισμένες πάνω στα αρχαία τείχη που ήξερες ότι υπάρχουν.

Μορφές κεντημένες σε υφαντό που άλλες ζουν και χαίρονται, άλλες που χάνονται

και άλλες που χάθηκαν.


Είναι ψυχές ή ζωγραφιές: Η μήπως ηχούν σαν μουσικές;

Εσύ δρομέα της ζωής μη σταματάς ν’ αναπολείς.

Είναι η ζωή σου οι μορφές, άλλες γλυκές άλλες πικρές που σ’ αγκαλιάζουν σαν της γιαγιάς το υφαντό.

Η μουσική είναι αναπνοές που νανουρίζουν και τύμπανα που σε ξυπνούν.

Τα τείχη τα βυζαντινά είναι τα όρια που ξεπερνάς, μην τα φοβάσαι.



This is the second time I decided to publish an exchange of posts between Sakan Gurkaynak, a Turkish friend and myself, friends in Facebook, regarding different points of view between Turks and Greeks on current conflicting issues.  

I don’t pretend I am a specialists on Turkish Greek relationships so one could consider my responses as the view of an average Greek person.

Whatever the opinion of a person may be, I believe it is interesting to observe how each party looks at current situation between our two countries.

It is important and constructive to understand the thinking of Turkish persons especially this period that Turkey appears to be driven further away from EU principles as well as develop conflicts with its major ally in NATO, USA.

The conflicts with Greece are due to medium to long term historical reasons that Greece had hoped will be reduced with an approach between Turkey and West, but it appears that things are pulling appart the other way, a fact that leaves Greece exposed to great dangers in view of internal political changes that are happening in Turkey as well as the expressed desire of Turkey to play a stronger role as a regional power in support of its geopolitical interests in the wider area both in Eastern Mediterranean  and the Aegean Sea. This inevitably involves Greece and Cyprus as well as and most importantly, further East, with α possible creation of a Curdist state in the Turkish frontiers.

An exchange of posts follows: 

Sukan Gurkaynak what in your opinion is wrong with Tsipras. a neutral question, I just want to understand your viewpoint.

Nick Kouzos Tsipras is a young politician who managed to be ellected on the basis of promises that a totaly disapointed electorate believed but he did not deliver. Greece has gone through a very dificult recession that reduced income to most midle class Greeks , reduced pensions to the elderly by 50%. To ratify the situation the Greek Goverment should have reduced the size of the public sector, inprove it’s performance  as well as encourage foreign invetment. Thipras increased taxation to private sector and individuals to a degree that approaches taxation to 70% on profits, instead of reducing expenses in the public sector. Tsipras appeared as a radical leftish against austerity masures that EU and IMF were requesting but eventually implemented all instructions imposed by EU and IMF in a way that did not allow development, maintaining an imposible status for private companies to develop. This was also against advises given by EU and IMF who were interested to collect their money one or other way. So people in Greece are considering him as a big opportunist that follows any line just to remain in power for an other year. He currently maintains a 20% control of the public vote but takes decisions over and above the will of the Greek Public which has shifted against him. I have given a fuller view of conditions in an article which you may like to read under the following link:

Nick Kouzos This is how US and EU are looking upon Tsipras who has turned to a «good boy» for them…/alexis-tsipras-eu…INDEPENDENT.CO.UK

Opinion: How Alexis Tsipras went from an anti-Brussels…

Sukan Gurkaynak Nick Kouzos The Turkish left loves Tsipras which is probably a good reason to distrust him. The German press wrote either other countries aliment Greece with no end or the Greeks will have to live to their means. My Cretan relatives say Greeks are wonderful people until their church or their demagogues incite them to fanaticism. What is your alternative?

Nick Kouzos The political alternative for Greece is the New Democracy party which is a moderate Center to right. This party leads in the forecast by 12%. This will probably be the next Greek Government.

Nick Kouzos Religion has always been contributing to fanaticism. The same happened with Christian Protestants, Catholics and Orthodox, but the same is happening with Islam.

Sukan Gurkaynak Nick Kouzos I also think New Democracy is more reasonable. But they still have the problem that they have to live to their means and no one outside Greece understand the Macedonia issue. Compare it with this: Eastern Anatolia has always been called Armenia. The Hay people who were late comers are allied by the name Armenians. This is not the case of a people giving their names to a land, but a land giving its name to the people. That creates the illusion that the hay people as they call themselves were the natives of East Anatolia and Turks had invaded their country. That is for Turkey a huge propaganda problem. Their language was made a language of culture by Greeks translating the bible into the language, which is well documented and contains a huge number of pre-Islamic Turkish words, indicating they were living together with Turks in East Anatolia long before Islam came. 60% have Turkish family names which they did not get from the Ottomans who had no family names. The Armenians themselves call their own country Hayastan. Imagine Turkey would now start fighting the idea that Armenia is called Armenia? Soem fights make no sense.

Nick Kouzos It is very difficult to understand and appreciate how Greek Macedonians feel about Macedonia. It is very difficult even impossible to convince Greek Macedonians that there is a Macedonian Nationality and a language Macedonian language which is basically a Bulgarian dialect influenced by Slavic-Serbian.

Sukan Gurkaynak Nick Kouzos I thought the Greek population of Macedonia were Anatolians who went there after the population exchange? If you look at a who is who of Ottoman/Turkish history of the last 150 years, you would see that the majority of political personalities are from Rumelia. The people who made the republic are from Macedonia. We can live with a Greek Macedonia. In the Balkans «Bulgarians» like Serbs constituted a dialect continuum. Depending on who conquered the Ottoman lands they became Bulgarians or Serbs and were made to learn official Bulgarian Slavonic or Serb Slavonic. Macedonian Slavonic is practically Bulgarian Slavonic.

Nick Kouzos I have already given you the population ratio of Greeks versus Bulgarians in Macedonia before 1821 and before the Balkan wars and the majority according to Ottoman books were Greeks. The difference has to do with Muslim populations. But Slavs and Bulgarians were a minority by far. There are still Greek minorities in Skopia, around 400.000. Some of them were communists who fled there after their defeat during the civil war in Greece, 1949, but even before that, the city of Monastir was almost totally Greek. The real objection is not the name, it is the issue of nationality and the language. The nationalities in Skopia are Slavs, Albanians, Bulgarians, Vlachs Pomaks and Greeks. I don’t know how many Muslim Turks are still there. I agree with your explanation regarding the language, it is Bulgarian Slavonic. So I don’t understand their insistence to claim a Macedonian nationality and Macedonian language especially when some Slav nationalists claim Greek Macedonia as their country. I could accept the term Slavonic Macedonians, with a minority of Albanians this is the true.

Sukan Gurkaynak Biggest group perhaps though it would surprise a majority improbable. I am still looking for my book. But the point is: in Ottoman times they all lived together, the proportion did not matter. Then came o bulgarophagos. A nationality is not a language, it is a political identity. The language in UK and US is identical. Germany and Austria. Turkey and Azerbaijan and a great part of Iran.

Nick Kouzos The nationality is not a language, we agree but there is no Macedonian Nationality. This was created by Tito on purpose, to invade Greece during the Communist era to get access to Aegean Sea. Whatever was happening during Ottoman times, we cannot recreate Ottoman Empire.

Sukan Gurkaynak Nick Kouzos Normal people do not want to recreate the Ottoman Empire. I just wanted you to remember, as you want us to remember. Outside Western Europe most nationalities are products of the 20th century. To be realistic, that includes Turks, defined as Ottoman Muslims and Greeks defined as Ottoman Greek Church members. A lot of people who are today Turks have ancestors who would have been amazed to think of themselves as Turks. Greek used to mean church and not nationality, that is why Cretan Muslims were excluded and the Karamanlis included when the Modern Greek nation was defined. Greeks should keep that in mind when they hate us Turks as Mongolian intruders, as a lot of them do.

Nick Kouzos I agree with your statement but you must also remember that Ottomans considered Greeks in certain areas as bandits and second class citizens. All this has happened in the middle of cultural and religious conflicts which effected developments both in West and East. I agree that intruders from Mongolia was only the beginning. Arab influence and Islam was also important. On the opposite side the west had the Dark Medieval period the Crusades and the Horrors of the Christian Church and Its Holy Inquisition. So it is natural and a historical fact that all these would have left serious wounds to the evolution of national states. Many people including Greek scholars would support the argument that Greeks would have been more well of, if they would join Ottomans to create an Empire under the name Middle Empire. This would have been possible if it was not for religious differences. The problem is that this has not happened for whatever reason, so we have to solve the conflicts with current status quo. There is not current hatred that cannot be handled under the influence of wiser politicians that should not act under the influence of populism.


Sukan Gurkaynak Nick Kouzos Actually the Turks who came to Anatolia in 1071 had nothing to do with Mongolia. They were Turkmens from Iran. You can see this on the fact that Turkmens (the word means I am a Turk) still live in Iran and Turkey as well as Afghanistan Iraq and Syria. The language is as close to Turkish in Turkey as English and Americans. Anatolia was being fought over by Greeks and Iran since ancient times and this was one more Iranian invasion. Even today around of a third of Iran speaks Turkish (Turkmen, Azeri, Qashghai). There is a theory that this was also so in ancient times. Also by the time the Turkmens came Turkish was alos spoken in Anatolia and Rumelia. This is how Turkey could be born. For a comparison: Turks also invaded India at the same time and left significant traces. But there are practically no Turks in India. The initial Greek nationalists did want to democratize the Ottoman Empire to French revolution ideology. The Greeks at that point were working with the Ottoman authorities. In 1868 all ethnicities of the empire were declared equal. The Greek Patriarch protested half in joke, until then the Greeks had been the second nation (millet) of the empire they had become one among many.

Nick Kouzos We are taking our discussion too deep in history but just to prove to you that I have done my research I am quoting directly from my site a special chapter about the roots of Turks which gives a full description

The Origin Of Turks | Nick Kouzos

Nick Kouzos The fact is that there has been a long historic rivalry. There is no question that a certain section of Greeks in Fanari around the area the Greek Patiarch were contributing to a great degree to the administration of the state. But today there is a serious problem with Turkey as they have closed the Hieratical school of Halki that reduces the number of number of Priests that can become Patriarchs since they have to be of Turkish Nationality. This in effect reduces the level of the personality that will be the next Patriarch. This is very shuttle approach of indirect fight. There are a lot of issues we have to improve in order to avoid a next cultural clash in history between Greeks or may be better to call them Hellenes.

Sukan Gurkaynak Nick Kouzos I agree. The school issue is a retaliation to Greek government control of the Islamic institutions of West Thrace.

Sukan Gurkaynak Nick Kouzos I had previously read your article on the origin of the Turks. This is official history. Common words between maya and Turkish confirm the idea. However it is not the whole truth. Strabon writes that in his own time the same language was spoken all around the Black Sea. (I have not read the book yet) The only language spoken all around the Black sea is Turkish. So I think the West wrote the history and they liked the idea of us being Siberian barbarians. For strange reasons so do we. Turks do not do much research and what they do is concentrated on the Ottoman Empire perhaps also because the lands of Asia are controlled by Russians and Chinese who do not like the idea any more than Turks like Hellenic Anatolia. Turks say Sumer- the first civilization- was speaking a language which could be the antecedent of Turkish. The West hates the idea. They also want the Japanese to be an isolated people and hate the idea that Japanese could be related to Turkish. To find out, I spent time learning some Japanese. It is as closely related to Turkish as German to English. As for the modern Turkish nation, I think of us as being like Americans, not an ethnic unit but a political unit.

Nick Kouzos Sukan Gurkaynak Again we have a conflict regarding the priests (Mufties) in West Thrace. Turkey insists to impose Turkish nationals and not Muslims from other countries i.e Greece or Egypt. Turkish persons influence local Muslims against Greece and Greek Nationality. On the contrary a new Patriarch has to be of Turkish Nationality. You see you always support the Turkish point of view in every case. Even if the injustice is obvious. There is always a degree of bias to all of us but in most cases the Turks are more fanatic. One example is the case of the closing of school of Halki. Another example is the detainment of the two Greek soldiers. You keep double standards.

Sukan Gurkaynak Nick Kouzos According to my knowledge Greek government is imposing her people as Mufti. At least one elected Greek citizen Mufti they put in jail. Greece throws West Thracian Turks in jail for calling themselves Turks and takes their citizenship. Egyptians have no business in West Thrace. Even under military rule Turkey had laws and courtly. Thanks to the US and Erdogan this is no longer the case. The Americans jailed huge number of innocent generals using the Gulenists to bring Mr Erdogan a political-tactical advantage. CIA chief Petraeus was in Ankara and offered to release them if the military initiate a conflict with Iran. Then with EU support (including Greece) Erdogan made a referendum to bring the justice system under his control. Nowadays people go to jail if Mr Erdogan imagines a tactical advantage. Thank you EU, thank you Greece.

Nick Kouzos Sukan Gurkaynak There is no imprisonment of any person for calling himself Turk. Tis is misinformation. But in spite of this you are avoiding to respond directly on main points. Once again you accept the imprisonment of two Greek soldiers and the closing of the school of  Halki. You also do not give a response regarding Mufties arising nationalistic climate in west Thrace. West Thrace Muslims are Greek citizens, they enjoy European citizenship as well. The Patriarch is a Turkish citizen and Turkey is effectively denying a succession process. We must for a change speak directly about these issues not avoiding direct answers. So why should Greeks allow Turkish Mufties to be appointed in West Thrace, who are acting against Greece, and at the same time deny the opening of the School of Halki? Do you support this action?


Sukan Gurkaynak Nick Kouzos I am little informed about what goes on in West Thrace and the Greek church in Istanbul. I wrote what I heard. Turks were complaining about the issues I wrote. I wrote that Mr Erdogan jails innocent people for tactical reasons. It was the West which created this situation. They wanted the Turkish military destroyed by jailing generals for no reason. They expected that Turkey would give land to Greeks, Kurds and Armenians once the military was out of the way. Now the military is out of the way and Mr Erdogan jails ever more people. I don’t like it. I think both Greece and Turkey need to reestablish real minority rights for the Greeks of Istanbul and the Turks of Thrace. If anybody ever asks me that is what I will say.

Nick Kouzos But there are no Greeks left in Istanbul, they are just 1.000, The Turkish Muslims in Thrace are protected by total freedom and equal rights both under Greek and EU law. They can even be members of parliament and in some cases they are. The problem rises only in cases when their leaders try to raise their expectations that Turkey will annex West Thrace. Even that is not used as an excuse to imprison anybody. On the contrary Turkey is stirring the situation by funding certain activities through the Turkish Consulate and some Mufties. As to the fact that The Americans are trying to use Greece again as it happened during the First World War, I believe that this is not possible this time. The problem is the other way around and it has to do with West Thrace, Aegean islands and Cyprus, The real problem and possible fighting accidents may start in case Turkey invades South Cyprus territorial waters instead of working out a solution is Cyprus for Turks and Greeks to coexist. The most dangerous argument is that Cyprus cannot be an independent nation unless Turkey decides so. This implies conflicts of interests between Cyprus and Turkey which involves conflicts between Russia and US as well as Europe. It is a matter of .oil and gas pipes. History repeats itself. Greece has been a victim ones on this game. I hope both Greece and Turkey will be wiser this time because both countries can be losers. I am supporting a multi ethnic solution for Cyprus that will create a safe place for both communities under EU equal rights environment, although I don’t believe that Turkey will allow this because it will effect Turkish aspirations in this area. So this a real danger.

Cyprus zone.png

Sukan Gurkaynak The starting position on Cyprus is, the 1960/61 treties are still valid. The Greeks decided to ignore them in 1963 and forced the Turks to live in ghettos. In 1974 the ghettos were enlarged to enable the Turks to lead normal lives.

Nick Kouzos inserted the photo:

Massive graves of missing Greek Cypriots descovered in Cyprus

Μαζικοι τάφοι αγνοουμενων.jpg

Sukan Gurkaynak The treaties cannot be changed to make Cyprus sovereign without Turkey as the Lausanne treaty cannot be changed to make West Thrace sovereign without Greece. No country gives up treaty rights. The West especially the British annexed all islands on the planet, and made laws which determine that their uninhabited rocks in the seas give them control of the open sea. An uninhabited rock has more sea that the continent of china with billions of people. Such «laws» are not sustainable. There was already a war over the useless Falkland Islands and the world will burn over the rocks in the South China Sea unless other laws are made. If you look up Turks of Western Thrace in wikipedia you will see there are one million of them. , overall there are an estimated 1 million Turks whose roots are from Western Thrace.[53], If the situation were so good they would live at home and not 90% in exile as is the fact. There are many in Turkey, which is why Turkey is so interested in them. Take Mehmet Müezzinoğlu (born January 9, 1955) is a Turkish physician and politician, who served as the Minister of Labor and Social Security between 2016 and 2017, and the Minister of Health from 2013 to 2016. CEarly years
He was born on January 9, 1955 in Arriana village of Rhodope to Ali and his wife Fatma, a family from the Turkish minority in Greece. Müezzinoğlu went to Istanbul for his high school education. He studied in an İmam Hatip school, where he met Recep Tayyip Erdoğan, who was his classmate.[1][2]


Sukan Gurkaynak In my view the West was annoyed about the Cyprus operation in 1974. First they bakrupted Turkey to make her give Cyprus up. Did not work. Then they sent the PKK to break up Turkey. Did not work. Then they decided to replace the establishment with docile Islamsts. Also did not work. had they stopped the Greeks in 1963 there would have been no Cyprus issue. Had they admitted Turkey into the Eu the conflicts would have been solved. The way things stand, the fight will go on until the West recognizes Turkey as their equal. I once had a discussion with a Greek who was telling Kurdish discussion partner, they should always serve the West, that way the West would help them grab other peoples assets. This is what the Kurds are doing in Syria. Can we trust Greece to be rational?

Nick Kouzos All this is one sided view Turkey retaliates always violating treaties and produce their own rules of international law and accuse west disregarding any valid existing law. Even if Greece wanted to change international laws, we cannot implemented it We have to live under a recognized environment , otherwise we will have to submit to the law of the stronger which means to accept everything Turkey wants. This will not happen, even if we are to disappear from the map of nations we will stick by the international law. Then you bring up issues of retaliations all the time. Why you say that Turkey has to defend the rights of 150.000 of Muslims in West Thrace, they are there due to the treaty of Lausanne, who says that you have to defend them because there were 1.000.000, are you talking about their ancestors? Even so would you accept that Greeks should act for the rights of .5 million that lived in Asia Minor. I cannot make sense with your way of thinking. It makes no sense to define everything in just one-sided way. Turkey cannot interfere in another country’s situation. You are always changing the rules and every time you fail you blame the western world in its entirety. You are mixing ancestors with current populations, you stick to a treaty and you violate every law and you always have an excuse you never admit any mistake in Turkey’s policies and aspirations. You accuse EU for not accepting Turkey and at the same time you don’t comply with their rules. What do you expect EU to comply with Turkish rules?

Islam and Human rights.jpg

As you most probably will say this is a western club that obey to international low. I thing we need to stop referring to the past and see what we have in front of us today. If you insist that international law is not valid then we have to prepare for the worst for both our countries. I really don’t know where this will take us. I will be talking for the millions lost in Asia Minor and you will be talking about your brothers in West Thrace and Cyprus.


Sukan Gurkaynak Nick Kouzos Real EU members do not obey the «rules», they make the rules. Turkey wants to be one of them and not a Slovakia which obeys the rules other people make. When they have an interest, Greeks also disobey rules. Turkey is interested in the Turks of Western Thrace and other places and Greece is interested in Greeks everywhere. That will remain so. The million figure is interesting because the enormous emigration from Western Thrace shows, something is wrong. I have not reinterpreted anything, the still valid treaties for Cyprus gives Turks and Turkey rights they will not give away. Greece also does not give away anything. In 2003 the United Nations decided, it was legal for the US to invade Iraq and kill 2 million Iraqis. So much for «international laws». Greece should cooperate with turkey instead of hiding behind other countries which serve their own interests. It is not an issue of disappearing from map. Neither Greece, nor the Cypriot Turks.


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Nick Kouzos
Nick Kouzos This can go on for ever, Greece will not play this game of: Y
ou either agree or else!!
We are not hiding behind any body, There are three UN decisions condemning Turkey for an invation which was illegal.
We will stick to our position obaying by international low, we have no other option
This is the only justice we know all the rest is what Turkey is trying to do for years now, to bring Greece to its knees. This is why you have entered this arms race just to bring Greece to it knees.
We have experienced Turkish cruelty for handreds of years, we dont trust you. We will fight to the last one and die for our country and for justice.
I dont care what the West wants us to do, neither what Turkey wants us to do.
If any body is not willing to die for his country does not deserves to be free.
This is what Kemal said to Turks in Kallipoli: I dont want you to fight for you country I want you to die for it.
We will follow Kemal’s instractions. So keep up buying Amerikan F35’s and Russian         S 400′ or German Tanks we are not being afraid. We will not black mail with reference to your victims.
We have not killed as many as we have lost. your Generals are, EVEN TODAY threatening us, that we will END UP  WHERE our grand parents had to end up, in the botton of Aegean sea. This is not a way to discuss. We don’t trust these people that behave in this descracefull way, during the 21st century.

Editor, Archaeology Magazine
“A Letter from Macedonia”
36-36 33rd Street

Long Island City, NY 11106


Dear Sir,

I opened the January/February issue of Archaeology today and eagerly turned to “A Letter from Macedonia” only to discover that it was actually a letter from ancient Paionia – the land north of Mt. Barmous and Mt. Orbelos. Livy’s account of the creation of the Roman province of Macedonia (45.29.7 and 12) makes clear that the Paionians lived north of those mountains (which form today the geographically natural northern limits of Greece) and south of the Dardanians who were in today’s Kosovo. Strabo (7. frag 4) is even more succinct in saying that Paionia was north of Macedonia and the only connection from one to the other was (and is today) through the narrow gorge of the Axios (or Vardar) River. In other words, the land which is described by Matthew Brunwasser in his “Owning Alexander” was Paionia in antiquity.

While it is true that those people were subdued by Philip II, father of Alexander, in 359 B.C. (Diodorus Siculus 16.4.2), they were never Macedonians and never lived in Macedonia. Indeed, Demosthenes (Olynthian 1.23) tells us that they were “enslaved” by the Macedonian Philip and clearly, therefore, not Macedonians. Isokrates (5.23) makes the same point. Likewise, for example, the Egyptians who were subdued by Alexander may have been ruled by Macedonians, including the famous Cleopatra, but they were never Macedonians themselves, and Egypt was never called Macedonia (and so far as I can tell does not seek that name today).

Certainly, as Thucydides (2.99) tells us, the Macedonians had taken over “a narrow strip of Paionia extending along the Axios river from the interior to Pella and the sea”. One might therefore understand if the people in the modern republic centered at Skopje called themselves Paionians and claimed as theirs the land described by Thucydides.

But why, instead, would the modern people of ancient Paionia try to call themselves Macedonians and their land Macedonia? Mr. Brunwasser (p. 55) touches on the Greek claims “that it implies ambitions over Greek territory” and he notes that “the northern province of Greece is also called Macedonia.” Leaving aside the fact that the area of that northern province of modern Greece has been called Macedonia for more than 2,500 years (see, inter alios, Herodotus 5.17; 7.128, et alibi), more recent history shows that the Greek concerns are legitimate. For example, a map produced in Skopje in 1992 (Figure 1) shows clearly the claim that Macedonia extends from there to Mt. Olympus in the south; that is, combining the ancient regions of Paionia and Macedonia into a single entity. The same claim is explicit on a pseudo-bank note of the Republic of Macedonia which shows, as one of its monuments, the White Tower of Thessalonike, in Greece (Figure 2). There are many more examples of calendars, Christmas cards, bumper-stickers, etc., that all make the same claim.

Further, Mr. Brunwasser has reported with approval (International Herald Tribune 10/1/08) the work of the “Macedonian Institute for Strategic Research 16:9”, the name of which refers “to Acts 16:9, a verse in the New Testament in which a Macedonian man appears to the Apostle Paul begging him: ‘Come over into Macedonia, and help us.’» But where did Paul go in Macedonia? Neapolis (Kavala), Philippi, Amphipolis, Apollonia, Thessaloniki, and Veroia (Acts 16:11-17:10) all of which are in the historic Macedonia, none in Paionia. What claim is being made by an Institute based in Skopje that names itself for a trip through what was Macedonia in antiquity and what is the northern province of Greece today?

I wonder what we would conclude if a certain large island off the southeast coast of the United States started to call itself Florida, and emblazoned its currency with images of Disney World and distributed maps showing the Greater Florida.

Certainly there was no doubt of the underlying point of “Macedonia” in the mind of U.S. Secretary of State Edward Stettinius on December 26, 1944, when he wrote:

“The Department [of State] has noted with considerable apprehension increasing propaganda rumors and semi-official statements in favor of an autonomous Macedonia, emanating principally from Bulgaria, but also from Yugoslav Partisan and other sources, with the implication that Greek territory would be included in the projected state. This government considers talk of Macedonian ”nation”, Macedonian “Fatherland”, or Macedonian “national consciousness” to be unjustified demagoguery representing no ethnic nor political reality, and sees in its present revival a possible cloak for aggressive intentions against Greece.”

[Source: U.S. State Department, Foreign Relations vol viii, Washington, D.C., Circular Airgram (868.014/26Dec1944)]

Mr. Brunwasser (a resident of Bulgaria), however, goes on to state, with apparent distain, that Greece claims “Alexander III of Macedon (Alexander the Great) . . . as Greek.”

This attitude mystifies me. What is there to “claim”? Alexander’s great-great-great grandfather, Alexander I, was certified as Greek at Olympia and, in the words of the father of history “I happen to know that [the forefathers of Alexander] are Greek” (Herodotus 5.22). Alexander’s father, Philip, won several equestrian victories at Olympia and Delphi (Plutarch, Alexander 4.9; Moralia 105A), the two most Hellenic of all the sanctuaries in ancient Greece where non-Greeks were not allowed to compete. If Philip was Greek, wasn’t his son also Greek?

When Euripides – who died and was buried in Macedonia (Thucydides apud Pal. Anth. 7.45; Pausanias 1.2.2; Diodorus Siculus 13.103) – wrote his play Archelaos in honor of the great-uncle of Alexander, did he write it in Slavic? When he wrote the Bacchai while at the court of Archelaos did he not write it in Greek even as it has survived to us? Or should we imagine that Euripides was a “Macedonian” who wrote in Slavic (at a date when that language is not attested) which was translated into Greek?

What was the language of instruction when Aristotle taught Alexander? What language was carried by Alexander with him on his expedition to the East? Why do we have ancient inscriptions in Greek in settlements established by Alexander as far away as Afghanistan, and none in Slavic? Why did Greek become the lingua franca in Alexander’s empire if he was actually a “Macedonian”? Why was the New Testament written in Greek rather than Slavic?

On page 57 of the so-called “Letter from Macedonia” there is a photograph of the author standing “before a bronze statue of Alexander the Great in the city of Prilep.” The statue is patently modern, but the question is whether the real historic Alexander could have read the Slavic inscription beneath his feet. Given the known historic posterity of Slavic to Greek, the answer is obvious.

While Mr. Brunwasser’s reporting of the archaeological work in Paionia is welcome, his adoption and promotion of the modern political stance of its people about the use of the name Macedonia is not only unwelcome, it is a disservice to the readers of Archaeology who are, I imagine, interested in historic fact. But then, the decision to propagate this historical nonsense by Archaeology – a publication of the Archaeological Institute of America – is a disservice to its own reputation.

Let it be said once more: the region of ancient Paionia was a part of the Macedonian empire. So were Ephesos and Tyre and Palestine and Memphis and Babylon and Taxila and dozens more. They may thus have become “Macedonian” temporarily, but none was ever “Macedonia”.

Allow me to end this exegesis by making a suggestion to resolve the question of the modern use of the name “Macedonia.” Greece should annex Paionia – that is what Philip II did in 359 B.C. And that would appear to be acceptable to the modern residents of that area since they claim to be Greek by appropriating the name Macedonia and its most famous man. Then the modern people of this new Greek province could work on learning to speak and read and write Greek, hopefully even as well as Alexander did.


Stephen G. Miller

Professor Emeritus, University of California,


PS: For a more complete examination of the ancient evidence regarding Paionia, see I. L. Merker, “The Ancient Kingdom of Paionia,” Balkan Studies 6 (1965) 35-54

cc: C. Brian Rose, President, Archaeological Institute of America

Hillary Rodham Clinton, Secretary of State of the United States of America

Dora Bakoyiannis, Minister of Foreign Affairs of Greece

Antonis Samaras, Minister of Culture of Greece

Olli Rehn, European Commissioner for Enlargement

Erik Meijer, Member, European Parliament

ΣχόλιαSukan Gurkaynak
Sukan Gurkaynak We know that Alexander used Greek as a cultural language. We do not know which language he spoke at home. Greek was a cultural language like English today or Latin in Europe and Persian in the Orient. Persian was used in Peking in the Mongolian era or in India before the English took over. This has nothing to do with what a state calls itself 2500 years later.
Nick Kouzos
Nick Kouzos Don’t you read the scripts around the world?This is apse red. Don’t you see the theatrical plays where common people attended? Don’t you read the comedies, the satyr, and the political speeches, don’t you know anything about Aristoteles? Have seen any other language being spoken? May be you are so fanatic that you can call Greek as Attalian.

What you say is a proof to the world how prejudice some Turks are.

I would have never believed it if you had not written this.

Even Alexander’s grandfather participated twice in the Greek Olympic Games that only Greeks participated.

Greek language was the only language spoken by Greeks There was no traces or proof or the slightest trace of anything else.

I am amazed with what I listen to.

Sukan Gurkaynak
Sukan Gurkaynak Nick Kouzos Strabon writes that in his time many languages were spoken in Anatolia. Of that only Greek language scripts remain. Present day Bulgaria and Roumenia also spoke various languages in antiquity, we no longer remember.
Nick Kouzos Bulgarians and Romanians were speaking other languages, especially Romanians who were speaking a language close to latin. Tutks were speaking a language which was written in Arabic characters. Greeks were speaking mainly Greek and after the fall of Bisantines Some Greeks were converted to Islam and others survived as crypto Christians. Slavonic languages were also spread and some Greeks were speaking Slavonic languages even Bulgarian but all this happened after 600 AC. This does not mean that they lost their national identity. In any case Greek was not a language spoken by just elites in the wider Hellenistic areas, including Asia Minor or Anatolia as Turks prefer to call it. In any case the Cyrillic alphabet was introduced to Slavs by two Greek Monks. The Cyrillic characters are Greek characters. The written form of Turkish language was created by Kemal who introduced mainly Latin characters as late as the 20th century. Greek prevailed and influenced Latin and most European languages including English. One can speak English for hours using just Greek words. This is the power of the Greek language, this is why the written Greek scriptures are so widely left around Greece the Balkans and Anatolia. Language in oral and written form is a vehicle to maintain cultural and ethnic roots. This in addition to religion during Byzantine times is the main reason why Greece managed to survive and maintain roots that go as far as Ancient Greece. All this has a lot of relation to the issue of the Macedonian nationality and Macedonian language that Greece objects so much. At the moment US and EU are not concerned about these Greek sensitivities, they just want to keep West Balkans including Skopia within NATO alliance and keep Russia out. Turkey, as always, wants to maintain control over Balkan countries as well. Greece is a word introduced by west, Unan is the name from the name «Iones» which is the name of Greeks residing in Anatolia and some of the Aegean Islands. The rest of Greeks were Dorians and Aiolis. They were all speaking the same Greek language.No mixtures were hapening in the Ancient Greek times becouse the rest of the current world was considered by Greeks as Barbarians. We can do nothing about that now. The trouth is that you cannot find any signes of civilisations that have reached the level of culture that was created by Greeks at that time, you need only read som of the texts written at that time from Greek Philosohers, Politicians Theater writers, mathematicians, scientists. This is why West re-descovered them during renesance. Greece missed this period because of Turkish ocupation and was left behind.
Sukan Gurkaynak Nick Kouzos Egypt and Sumer are far older than Greece. Turkish was written in runic script around 500 BC. After that in aramaic, after that arabic. Turks had a printing press printing aramaic in East Turkestan 500 years before the germans. do you know the pre-slavic languages of Bulgaria and the pre-latin language of Roumania? until when the native anatolian languages were spoken? of course not. noboedy doubts the ancient greek civilization but that has nothing to do with the Greek macedonia conflict. this is the only casein human history where one country tries to forbid the name of a neighbopring country. it is silly.
Demetri Roubanis
Demetri Roubanis His mother was Greek.
His first language was Greek


Nick Kouzos
Nick Kouzos Sukan Gurkaynak If it is so silly why did they accept the name North Macedonia?
It is the first time in history that a nation attempts to adopt -steal the history the names and the historic inheritance of their neighbor.
I was in Skopia 20 years ago, in business and I was discussing with the Leader of an American aid organization who told me, to my surprise: Who could imagine that a small nation like Macedonia would create such an empire to influence by its advanced culture the rest of the then known world!!!!
Can you imagine the ignorance of this American?
He was talking about the Hellenistic period that even the Turkish Museum in Istanbul proudly demonstrates as Hellenistic. But more than that you may overcome by considering silly there is an issue of sovereignty. Who is to guarantee that in 50 years North Macedonians who will be considered the only ones with Macedonian nationality will not want to …liberate Greek part of Macedonia. This is ridiculous.
Sukan Gurkaynak Nick Kouzos There is Anatolia and people who demand that Turkey drop her name and call herself Anatolia. Nobody would support an invasion of South Macedonia. Americans are ignorant. That is one reason why they support Greece in all her conflicts with Turkey. You’ll have to live with them.


Nick Kouzos
Nick Kouzos Sukan Gurkaynak The Runic alphabet was probably created independently rather than evolving from another alphabet. It is commonly thought to have been modelled on the Latin or northern Italian alphabets such as Etruscan.

The earliest known Runic inscriptions date from the 1st century AD, but the vast majority of Runic inscriptions date from the 11th century. Runic inscriptions have been found throughout Europe from the Balkans to Germany, Scandinavia and the British Isles.I am surprised that Turkish language was using Runic characters.The Aramaic alphabet was adaptaed from the Phoenician alphabet during the 8th century BC and was used to write the Aramaic language until about 600 AD. The Aramaic alphabet was adapted to write quite a few other languages, and developed into a number of new alphabets, including the Hebrew square script and cursive script, Nabataean, Syriac, Palmyrenean, Mandaic, Sogdian, Mongolian and probably the Old Turkic script.After Alexander the Great destroyed the Persian Empire, Aramaic ceased to be the official language of any major state, though continued to be spoken widely. It was during this period that Aramaic split into western and eastern dialects.

Aramaic was once the main language of the Jews and appears in some of the Dead Sea Scrolls. It is still used as a liturgical language by Christian communities in Syria, Lebanon and Iraq, and is spoken by small numbers of people in Iraq, Turkey, Iran, Armenia, Georgia and Syria.

Today Biblical Aramaic, Jewish Neo-Aramaic dialects and the Aramaic language of the Talmud are written in the Hebrew alphabet, while the Syriac alphabet is used to write Syriac and Christian Neo-Aramaic dialects, and the Mandaic alphabet is used for Mandaic. It is well noted that Turkish tribes have contributed military culture o locals while assimilated religious and language influences from Arabs
The end result was the creation of the Ottoman Empire which was mainly the combination of the military strength derived from imperialistic, nomadic Turkish tribes invading Anatolia and the religious Islamic influence contributed by Arabs. This is the real picture of Anatolia and Byzantium which eventually was taken over by Turks, who exterminated indigenous populations among which, Assyrians, Greeks, Armenians, and Jews etc. 

This is how the new Turkish state was established. Turkey is now trying to mispresent historical and cultural facts by stating that they are the people who inherited all existing civilizations of Anatolia. The truth is that Ottomans conquered (consider Constantinople) the area and the only thing they assimilated is the religious part of Islam contributed by the Arabs. 
The rest was totally exterminated, including Christians and Jews. What happened to Assyrians, Greeks Armenians? 
Turks expanded and finally were stopped in Vienna. Croissant was the food first introduced when Vienna was besieged by Turks. 
This is the picture that exists in Greece and West

I am not afraid :…/

 These are the lyrics in the above song “I am not afraid of you” which has been distributed in 146 countries around the world and caused a lot of emotion.

It is an inocent expresion addressed to all people and nations that are trying to get advantage of the Greek financial crisis.
It has Greek subtitles and I felt that many friends of Greece, but also non speaking Greeks who would love to understand the lyrics that are trying to give courage to Greeks who go through a very hard period, so there it is a non-professional translation.
The pictures edited within the video basically refers to Germans, but indirectly is addressing anybody who would conspire against its integrity.

So there it is:
I am not afraid of you even if you are threatening me with a knife.
I hold in my heart, in my defense, the lines from the poems of Seferis.
I have the Aegean island of Amorgos, I have poets like Gatsos, Kalvos and Solomos.
I am not afraid of you!
I am not afraid of you when you shout at me go away Melina!
I have Vergina’s glowing Sun from Macedonia as sacred amulet to protect me.
I have the mount Olympos and Hemitos, the fortress of Palamidi in Nayplion and the old woman Ro to keep watch on the island of Ro.
I am not afraid of you.
With Greece I live, I wake up in the morning and go to sleep in the night.
I am not afraid of you!!!!
I am not afraid even when you tell me: Go away I am telling you.
I have a million loves in the Aegean Sea.
I have a God in Crete. I have a cape and a cross.
I am not afraid of you!!!!
I am not afraid even when you say: Get out of the way.
I have a tree planted in the ancient theater of Eupidavros
I have an orchestra and sacred alter.
I have my values my logo and my logic my literature, I have my Tragedy and my theater my reasoning and my speech and my culture .
I am not afraid of you
With Greece I am waking up and going to sleep.