Covering the period from the fall of Constantinople during 1453 to the Greek revolution against the Ottoman Empire during 1821
A review of historical events that lead to the conflicts between Greece and Turkey over Aegean Sea, the Aegean island and Cyprus in an effort to provide a point of view that could be considered as neutral as possible considering that I am Greek and both sides of my family came to Greece as refugees after the defeat of the Greek army during 1922.
During recent years we experience a deterioration of Greek- Turkish relationships, especially under the Presidency of Recep Tayyip Erdogan who is implementing a revisionary approach against some of its neighbors, in Middle East and west. The situation has developed to serious conflicts in Aegean Sea, the islands and the republic of Cyprus, especially over the issues of island sovereignty and the rights of the Republic of Cyprus to develop its resources in its Exclusive Economic Zone,”
Erdoğan has said that Turkey «gave away» Greek islands that «used to be ours» and are «within shouting distance». «There are still our mosques, our shrines there,» he said, referring to the Ottoman occupation of the islands.
I have always tried to collect information about how and why my ancestors, from both sides of my family fled from Turkey as refugees during the years 1922-1924.
During my research, I had the opportunity to meet Nancy Horton the daughter of George Horton, US councilor to Smyrna during 1922 the year the Turkish Army, lead by Kemal Atatürk, entered the city after the defeat of the Greek Army that lead to the retreat that was followed by the massacre and expulsion of the entire Greek population from Asia Minor, allowing Turkey to reform to a new state with no Christian minorities which, at that time, consisted a major part of the middle class in Turkey.
Nancy Horton spent her life preserving evidence and reports provided by her father regarding events that took place during this period. Nancy donated to me some of this evidence, some in published books some in photocopies of articles etc. Nancy Horton passed away recently at the age of 103. She was 11 years old during 1922, the same age my closest living relative who survived the experience of the burning of Smyrna and the Turkish atrocities during this period.
George Horton
As part of my research I had the opportunity to meet both Greeks and Turks who appeared to be both either friendly and supportive for the promotion of Greek Turkish re approach and friendship or, on the other side, people that totally reject any such approach supporting revisionary claims regarding, Aegean sea, the islands, air and sea frontiers and Cyprus issue resolution, which still causes conflicts and animosity, becoming an obstacle for any improvement in Greek Turkish relationships.
With the occasion of the recent memorial of Nancy Horton, I was approached by a Turkish friend whose family was coming from Crete who tried to challenge and counter argue, in defense of Turkish positions and activities committed against Greeks and Armenians, which according to his view were a just retaliations against Greek invasion in Asia Minor and to Greek massacre of Muslim majorities in Macedonia during the Balkan wars as well as to massacres followed by the Greek uprising for independence during 1821-1832 .
As a result of this intervention we had an interesting exchange of arguments reflecting, in many ways, the current different points of view among Greeks and Turks that have increased the tensions over the last years.
I attach a log record of these counter arguments as recorded on Facebook, at the time, for your review and possible criticism.
Personally, I felt it will be productive to make an effort to investigate the historical facts mentioned in support of arguments from both sides.
The most important statement made on his part was that the conflict between the two countries was mainly caused by Greeks who did not take advantage of the ‘progressive’ administration Ottoman administration had. As a most convincing evidence, my friend presented was the fact that Greeks were allowed to prosper in Asia Minor during the years before 1922. It is absolutely true that the Greek community was prospering in many areas of Asia Minor at the end of 19th century and up to 1914 when the movement of New Turks which was established during 1908, initiated a new policy against various minorities mainly of Christina religion, including Greeks, Armenians and Assyrians.
A lot has been written about this period, mostly against what the West is calling “Genocide” for Armenians, Greeks and Assyrians, which Turkey considers as defense against Christian and imperialistic forces that were aiming the destruction of Ottoman Empire. I cannot totally reject the idea but at the same time I believe that we cannot try to explain current events with the prospective of a world which is gradually disappearing, like extreme nationalism, religious or political fundamentalism.
In this argument the Turkish point of view can be summarized as follows:
- Ottoman administration was progressive, consisting the first and greatest Empire that created a truly poly- ethnic state.
- West imperialists used Greece as an instrument to destroy Ottoman Empire.
- Greeks started a revolution during 1921 invading areas that had a majority of Muslim populations which were massacred by Greek revolutionists.
- Macedonia had a Muslim majority which was also massacred by Greeks during the Balkan wars.
- Turkey does not respect the rulings of UN, and other international organizations including international courts and international law because they are also controlled by a majority of Christian nations and not Muslim nations.
- Greeks and Armenians massacred 2.5 millions of Muslims in Asia Minor.
- 17 million Muslims were killed from the rest of the Balkan countries.
- Turks in Crete who consisted 40% of the total population were forced to abandon their homes.
- The expulsion of Greeks from Istanbul during the 50’s was a just retaliation against the massacres committed by Greeks against Turks in Cyprus, during their fight for independence against the British who were also justified to execute EOKA “terrorists” who killed around 300 British soldiers.
- Ottoman Empire was not built by just by Turkish tribes coming from Mongolia and Siberia, Turkish populations become from European local populations as early as 600 AD.
- Turkey has a right to all unnamed rocks and islands in Aegean Sea which is not a Greek Sea under Lausanne treaty.
- Greece does not respect Lausanne treaty.
- Cyprus territorial waters cannot be justified to be a sovereign area because Cyprus does not comply with existing agreements.
These statements summarize the main points from the Turkish points of view excluding a general statement made, about the existence of ancient civilizations that Turks are claiming they have been assimilated by the intruding Turkish tribes.
To my understanding, Turks are trying to eliminate any Greek signs of existence even the Greek identity in monuments from the Hellenistic times.
My effort has mainly been focused in investigating reasons how Greeks managed to maintain their national identity even after 400 years under Ottoman rule and what effect had the influence of western nations and western civilizations.
I personally believe that the issue is not to identify who first got to occupy Asia Minor because it is true that the rise of Ottoman Empire started its imperialistic expansion into Europe a few years before the year 1453, the Conquest of Constantinople the capital of the Byzantine Empire by the invading Ottoman army on 29 May 1453. The attackers were commanded by the then 21-year-old Sultan Mehmed II , who was called “The Conqueror”.
It is known that Sultan Mehmed II was half Greek and was grown under the influence of a Greek step Mother. This is why he had a sensitivity and admiration to Greek culture.
The capture of the city (and two other Byzantine splinter territories soon thereafter) marked the end of the Byzantine Empire, a continuation of the Roman Empire, an imperial state dating to 27 BC, which had lasted for nearly 1,500 years. The conquest of Constantinople also dealt a massive blow to Christianity, as the Muslim Ottoman armies thereafter were left unchecked to advance into Europe without an adversary to their rear.
So Constantinople was a critical border for the collision of two different cultures representing west and east. Till this time Byzantines were protecting both Christianity and west civilization.
After this Ottomans conquered areas up to Vienna in Central Europe and in Caucasus
To appreciate the effect of Ottoman penetration in Europe it is important to relate events in a chronological sequence.
Historical chronology
1300s:
Turkish tribe known as Ottomans forms small state in western Anatolia.
1352:
Ottomans invade and begin to occupy Bulgaria.
1371:
Ottomans defeat Serbs and their allies at Battle of Maritsa.
1389:
Ottomans inflict second defeat on Serbs, now led by Prince Lazar, at the Battle of Kosovo, beginning slow conquest of Serbia.
1402:
Ottomans move their capital from Asia Minor to Edirne (Adrianople) in Europe, signaling their intention to become a major European power.
1453:
Ottomans encircle and conquer Constantinople, ending the Byzantine Empire.
1459:
Fall of Smederevo liquidates last remnant of independent Serbian state.
1463:
Ottomans almost complete conquest of Bosnia, executing last king of Bosnia, Stjepan Tomasevic, at Jajce.
1468:
Albanian warrior prince Skenderbeg dies. Within a decade of his death, Ottomans overrun most of Albania.
1493:
Croatian nobility annihilated at Battle of Krbava in Lika, opening way to Ottoman conquest of much of Croatia.
1526:
Hungarian army crushed at Battle of Mohacs, opening way for Ottoman conquest of Hungary.
1557:
Sultan decrees restoration of Serbian Orthodox Patriarchate, vacant since the 1460s. Return of Patriarchs to Pec stimulates revival of Serbian identity within Ottoman Empire.
1645The war in Crete starts in June 1645
1683-1699:
Habsburgs conquer Ottoman-ruled Hungary and Croatia, forging new frontier between “Austrian” and “Turkish” empires. Failed uprising among Serbs in Kosovo results in mass emigration of Serbs to Habsburg Slavonia and Vojvodina.
1715
The Venetians retreated and abandoned Crete delivering the last fortresses to the Turkish conquerors.
1804-1817:
Series of Serbian uprisings ends in establishment of small autonomous Serbian principality within Ottoman Empire under Prince Milos Obrenovic.
1821
The Greek revolution for independence started from Peloponnese
1867:
Serbian princes consolidate control over new state by expelling Ottoman garrison from Belgrade.
1876-1878:
Uprising in Bulgaria triggers Russo-Turkish war the following year. This ends in Turkish defeat and creation at Congress of Berlin of autonomous Bulgaria within the Ottoman Empire.
Austria occupies Bosnia-Herzegovina and Serbia throws off last vestiges of autonomy, becoming formally independent and receiving territory to the south. Montenegro also gains territory at expense of Albanians.
1903:
So-called “Ilinden” uprising in Macedonia ends in defeat, as Serbs, Greeks and outside powers hold aloof. Ottomans remain in control of Macedonia.
1908:
Austria-Hungary annexes Bosnia and Herzegovina, humiliating Serbia. Montenegro’s prince declares himself a king and Bulgaria’s king declares himself a tsar. Young Turk revolution in Constantinople aims to revive Ottoman Empire.
1909-1910:
Anti-Ottoman revolts sweep northern Albania and Kosovo, but rebels’ failure to coordinate or gain support of outside powers allows Ottomans to retain control.
1912-1913:
Bulgaria, Serbia, Montenegro and Greece unite and declare war on Ottomans, overrunning “Turkey-in-Europe”, but then fighting with each other over the spoils.
First and Second Balkan wars end with most of Macedonia, claimed by Bulgaria, going to Serbia and Greece. Serbia also gains Kosovo. Albania declares independence but is unable to secure most majority-Albanian land for the new state.
After more than six centuries, the Ottomans are expelled from the continent, except for Constantinople and eastern Thrace.
So it is important to understand that Muslim inhabitants were formed after 1400.
The situation in Greek mainland after 1453
But what was happening in between with Greeks in Greek mainland and Asia Minor?
The Byzantine Empire which was a truly poly-ethic state was gradually weakened by crusaders from west and became an easy pray for the Ottomans. Constantinople was sieged by Crusaders during 1204 that established a Latin state, but was reclaimed by Greeks during 1261,
Constantinople was reclaimed by the Byzantine Greeks and the Byzantine Empire was restored. From 1261 onwards, Byzantium underwent a gradual weakening of its internal structures and the reduction of its territories from Ottoman invasions culminating in the fall of Constantinople on May 29, 1453. The Ottoman conquest of Constantinople resulted in the official end of both Byzantium and the Byzantine period of Greek history though Medieval Greek life would continue well into the Ottoman period.
When the Ottomans arrived, two Greek migrations occurred. The first migration entailed the Greek intelligential migrating to Western Europe and influencing the advent of the Renaissance. The second migration was iternal, entailed Greeks leaving the plains of the Greek peninsula and resettling in the mountains. The millet system contributed to the ethnic cohesion of Orthodox Greeks by segregating the various peoples within the Ottoman Empire based on religion.
The Greeks living in the plains during Ottoman rule were either Christians who dealt with the burdens of foreign rule or Crypto-Christians (Greek Muslims who were secret practitioners of the Greek Orthodox faith). Some Greeks became Crypto-Christians to avoid heavy taxes and at the same time express their identity by maintaining their ties to the Greek Orthodox Church. However, Greeks who converted to Islam and were not Crypto-Christians were deemed «Turks» in the eyes of Orthodox Greeks, even if they didn’t adopt the Turkish language. The Ottomans ruled Greece until the early 19th century.
If we look at it in more detail the first 150 years were a resettling period that displaced Greeks from their homes and Turks moved in. The second period became an opportunity for Greeks who helped Greeks to return back. This was good for the Ottoman administration because the Greeks were prospering and Ottomans collected a lot of taxes. The third period the Ottoman Empire was close to bankruptcy and increased the pressure to collect much higher taxes introducing Greek collectors who were left to collect as much money as they wanted, as long as they paid the required tax to the state. This created a real misery for the Greek community. Poverty increased enormously.
One has to differentiate between what was happening in different areas. Peloponnese was the area that suffered the worst pressure and poverty because it was of less importance for the Ottomans It was a very poor province of the Ottoman Empire.
During the 17th century the Ottoman Empire was exhausted by continues wars and financially nearly became bankrupt, so The Sultan introduces a new tax collection system that created the well-known Tsiflicts. The taxes were collected by a newly introduced class of Greeks called Cotzabasis who were collecting the taxes from the Christians, they were paying the correct tax to the state but at the same time were keeping a percentage for themselves as well as a commission to the local Turkish administrator. This process destroyed the Greek population that was lead to total poverty with no property or enough money to survive. This situation created a very wide network of autonomous areas controlled by Turks Pashas and Greeks jontly working even against the Ottoman administration.
During the 19th century the Ottoman state impose even more extremely demanding rules for the collection of money and taxes. A Greek from Smyrna was saying that the Ottoman state is like a snake that could accuse you in any way they liked imposing judgments in court as cruel as death penalties. There was not any justice, no protection. I have a personal experience of this situation as, my Grandfather was beaten to death by tax collection authorities
But collection of taxes was not the only burden that made Greeks very insecure. From 1422 till 1718, within three centuries there were eight wars between Ottomans and Venetians. Peloponnese became a battle ground, during 1486, when Methone was conquered by the Turkish Army, all inhabitants were butchered, and new inhabitants came to reside after instructions from the Sultan.
Every village and town in Peloponnese was ordered to send five families to Methone Something similar took place in Argos and Nafplion where these new inhabitants were killed or taken as slaves and new inhabitants were brought in from Albania.
The grabbing of Greek children was another inhuman tax imposed by the Ottomans on the Christians during the first centuries of the Ottoman domination until 1638. The sultan decided where and when the boys would be recruited for the needs of the army and the administration.
The Turkish envoy appeared in the villages and demanded that all fathers and their sons should appear before them. From these he chose the most healthy and strong to become janissaries. At the beginning the Turks took children aged 6-7 years and only one child from each family. Later, however, the army expanded to 8-10 years of age and slowly increased the number of children per family, until all male children were likely to be given. Christians have reached the point of marrying their boys at an early age or changing their faith with their will to avoid the process. And that did not always benefit, since the Turks hardly took into consideration such details.
Grabbing Christian children was probably the biggest wound for Hellenism during the Ottoman domination. The children who were grabbing were considered to be permanently lost. In Epirus region, on the first Sunday after the rapture, their parents went to the church, where a sacred event was performed. The priest announced the names of the children who were considered dead.
When the sultan’s envoys completed the number children who were going to become janissaries were sent to the city. There, they had a haircut they were choosing the strongest and most beautiful ones for further training.
During 1683 The Turks retreated, chased by the Venetians. On their retreat took with them Greeks as slaves.
While Venetians were bombarding Athens, Peloponnese was totally destroyed. The population was reduced from 300 thousands to 100 thousands.
From those, many hided on the mountains. The second reason to retreat to the mountains was to avoid the tax collection. This retreat again generated many mountain villages and a new community develops that the Ottomans identified as a new source of revenue, so they organize joint groups formed from joint forces Greek and Turkish responsible for tax collection. These groups acted as policemen as well.
These Greek armed forces were called Armatoli (armed Greeks). At the same time a second armed group was created complementary to the other due to the dangerous mountainous life which was armed and lived almost like robbers because they could not pay the taxes, this group was called Cleftes (thieves). Cleftes were basically outlaws as they consisted of people who were pushed to become outlaws out of poverty, not being able to pay taxes but they were most liked by the oppressed Greeks living on the mountains who felt sympathy, they were something like Roben of the woods.
To understand the pressure to collect taxes, a widowed woman with five children, crying, went and begged the local musters to reduce her tax a little because she could not pay. She stressed that he had sold everything she had precious. She also had to feed and dress three daughters and two sons. As soon as the man heard that she had so many children, he interrupted her and told her in cynicism: Sell two of your children and paid your taxes.
Avoiding tax payment was a serious criminal act that could bare serious and cruel punishment, even execution, nothing to do with the idea of a multi ethnic Empire.
The most barbaric possible execution by the Turks was the dismemberment of the victim and the exposure of his shredded members to public space. This execution was called partition or squatting, and the Turks enforced it in spies, rebels and prisoners. It became public and gave it a festive character. When, at the end of the 15th century, the Turks defeated the Venetians in the Peloponnese, arrested 500 captives and sent them to the city. There they executed all of them by partitioning.
The Turks tried to bribe the Cleftes by giving them land to become Armatoli hence they created a new class of rich land owners who were now armed. Some of them became very rich. But this situation could not be sustained for long.
During the Russian Turkish war the Russians believed that they could use Greeks to fight against Turks but Greeks were not organized to provide such help although they hoped that Russians could help them to gain independence.
When the Russians (Orlof Brothers) abandoned this idea Turks brought some 15000 Albanian missionaries who initially massacred 3 000 Greeks in Tripoli. But this was only the beginning they curried on killing a huge number of Greeks.
As the Russian fleet departed abandoning the idea, they burned down the town of Navarino. The Turks retaliated punishing Greeks by taking 20 000 of them to slavery. As a consequence 50.000 Greeks (which was 1/6 of the total population) escaped and never returned to Peloponnese. These 50 thousand Greeks spread around the islands and Asia Minor, spreading horror stories about Turkish barbarism.
It is true that conditions in the islands and Asia Minor was not as bad, yet tax collections were still creating serious conflicts and the only reason for Sultan to allow Christian subjects to retain their property and their job was to maintain a healthy financial and productive environment which was contributing to the Empire. This did not happen in Peloponnese.
After all these hardships it was natural that the environment was ideal for Peloponnese to become the area where ideas of freedom could grow. The rest of Greeks had less pressure, or better environment to grow, the islands were also suffering from piracy, but they were open to the outside world and its influences with ideas of freedom, due to commercial activities and the fleet they maintained.
Peloponnese could not be considered an area where Greeks could be treated as equal subjects of the Ottoman Empire. It was easy for them to accept ideas of freedom generated by French revolution and Greek culture maintained abroad and in Asia Minor.
During 1821, a major Greek revolt broke out in Southern Greece. Insurgents gained control of most of the countryside while the Muslims fled to the fortified towns and castles. Each one of them was besieged and gradually through starvation or surrender most were taken over by the Greeks. In the massacres of April 1821 some 15,000 were killed. The worst massacre happened in Tripolitsa, some 8,000 Muslims and Jews died.
In the end an Independent Greece was set up. Most of the Muslims in its area had been killed or expelled during this period.
The only census I managed to identify for Greek mainland is included in the following table.
POPULATION CENSUS DURING YEARS 1821 AND 1828
| Area | 1821 | 1821 | 1828 | 1828 | Reduction of Christian populations |
| Christians | Turks | Christians | Turks | ||
| Peloponise | 458000 | 42750 | 400000 | …… | 58000 |
| Sterea Hellas | 247850 | 20865 | 172850 | 11450 | 75000 |
| Aegion Islands | 169300 | »»»»» | 169100 | ……… | 200 |
| Totals | 875150 | 63615 | 741960 | 11450 | 132200 |
| Genera population | 938765 | 753400 | |||
I have not tried to investigate every area of the Ottoman Empire in Europe and Middle East. It is certain that conflicts have been taking place in Central Europe, the Balkans and Caucasus and they were significant losses on both sides, Christians and Muslims.
My focus is on Greek areas so let me proceed whith information on Ctrete.
Situation in Crete
The «Cretan War» began in June 1645, when 60,000 Turks landed and invaded unpredictably in Chania, fighting the Venetians.
In August of the same year, the Ottomans conquered the city and a little later Rethymno. Within two years central Crete had turned into a huge battlefield.
In 1648, the whole island was under a Turkish rule, with the exception of Candia, today Heraklion, due to its impregnable walls and Koule.
After 21 years of siege, on September 27, 1669, the Great Castle fell. In the longest siege of Europe, 30,000 Greeks and Venetians, as well as 117,000 Turks, have died.
After the fall of the city, there were extensive material damages and atrocities from the Ottomans. Many residents, to be saved have abandoned the island, others were sold as slaves, and others became Turkscretes, ie Cretans who embraced Muslims. There were also several young Cretans who fled to the fortresses of Gramvousa, Souda and Spinalonga, from where they decided to confront the conquerors. When these fortresses fell, the guerrillas fled to the mountains.
This time the Cretian equivalent to Cleftes and Armatoli called Hainides (Haines), from the Arab word hain which meant something like traitors, appeared to fight the occupying Turks.
For the Cretans, of course, the Hainides (Haines) were the rebels and revolutionaries (against Ottoman occupiers), who by their means tried to exterminate the Turks. The Haines were also known as «good-morning fighters,» as they used to descend from the mountains to the lowlands during the nights and make sudden and bloody raids against the Ottomans.
The extermination of the Christians and the atrocities of janissaries in Crete
In 1715 the Venetians surrender the last Fortresses and shelters to the Turkish conquerors.
Until 1770, Crete was in tragic circumstances. The Turkish authorities, ignoring the Sultan’s decrees, imposed heavy taxes on the inhabitants and oppressed the Christian population in every way. The most unscrupulous activities, however, were done by the Janissaries, who had settled on the island since the beginning of the Turkish invasion and gradually grew in number.
Violence and brutality against the Christian population had reached the the limit. Even Sultan orders were not enough to limit the janissaries’ impudence. In fact, some janissaries, in the late 18th and early 19th centuries, were infamous about their crimes and remained in the memory and songs of the Cretan people. Aliedakis in Chania, Arif Agas in Rethymnon, Benedes the Apostinis and Hanialis in Heraklion, Meet Agas or Meetakas in Sitia, were some of them.
This information is undisputable, to explain why Cretans desired Union with Greece.
Situation in Macedonia, the Balkan Wars, Pontos and the happenings after 1908 will follow in part II of this article.
Attached please find some comments made by my Turkish friend Sukan Gurkaynak:
«It is true that Greeks and Armenians dominated the Ottoman economy. They also paid no taxes and we never understood why they could not be thankful and live in peace. Moslems were poor and bleeding to death in wars initiated by Russia. Economic growth was at one percent a year. After 1913, the Ottoman government brutally discriminated against Greeks and Armenians. Economic growth went to 6% a year and has been there since 1924. Moslems have been getting richer ever since, Turkey is by now an industrial economy. Greece and Armenia are populated by people who think they are very able and hard working, and at least some of them we Turks are shit, have reached little. How would you explain that?
I went to the Turkish army when I was 30. There I met a Turk whose entire family was from Anatolia. All other Turks I met until then were he descendants of genocide survivors from the Caucasus, Crimea and the Balkans. In sum 30 million citizens of Turkey today. I remember an American school book from the 1890ies stated, the time would soon come when Islam, that is we European Moslems, would disappear back to the deserts of Arabia. Was that not what Greece intended when invading Anatolia in 1920?
This about the economic crisis: I remember a Turkish crisis in 1963, when I was 10, the Turks asked the Americans to save them and the Americans told them to spend less money. The Turkish press was furious that Turks were to spend less money, that was imperialism preventing Turkish prosperity. Is that not also the Greek crisis? As Europe was introducing the Euro, the Economist wrote, Britain would not because the British working class could not compete with the Germans and the British did not understand how the Greeks could imagine they could. So it was a crisis which was coming.
We do not trust institutions of the West. French president Hollande said, Greek islands gave the West a possibility to control the Mediterranean. They will not give that up. Besides no one in Turkey needs a confrontation with Greece.»
Further exchange of conflicting arguments exposing the serious differences of opinions between our points of view.
Sukan Gurkaynak My Grandfather was an officer in the Turkish army. They came to a Turkish village Greeks had evacuated. They had killed everyone except a little girl. He took the girl with him and my family adopted her. The Armenian and Greek rebellions costed the lives of 2,5 Million Turkish civilians. They were murdered to make the Moslem majority disappear from the territory Greek and Armenian nationalists coveted.
John Linaris The ones who disappeared from Asia Minor (today’s Turkey) are the original inhabitants, the Greeks and the Armenians! Their butchers, the Turks, are still there! The reality talks! Many non-Greeks and non-Armenians historians, travelers and writers verify that! George Horton was one of them! It’s time to stop hiding behind your finger! The only thing you manage to do is to ridicule yourselves!
Sukan Gurkaynak John Linaris Latin was initially the language spoken around Rome. With the Roman Empire it became the language in many countries in Europe. In its French and Spanish versions it is the language of many peoples in Africa and America. A Congolese or Paraguayan is generally not the descendant of the inhabitants of Rome 500 BC. This is how imperial languages operate. Greek after Alexander and Turkish are also imperial languages. Your presumption, anyone who speaks Turkish today must of necessity be a descendant of a Turkish tribe of 1500 years ago is simply wrong. The Turks of Turkey are the inhabitants of the European (including Anatolia) regions of the Ottoman empire. Their ancestors became Moslems when the Ottoman Empire offered them the freedom of religion. Greeks and Armenians, members of the respective churches, not necessarily ethnic Greeks or Armenians, live in peace and for 1000 years. In the 19th century came the imagination they were master race people and we sub-humans to be mass murdered. For 100 years the Ottoman Empire tried to accommodate them. They responded by mass murdering Moslems at every opportunity, the latest event in Bosnia in the 1990ies. In sum over 5 Million people were killed. After the Balkan war 1912 the situation was clear: either we let them force us out of Anatolia, or we don’t. Look at the Palestinians and the Israelis are no way as brutal as Greeks. Anatolia had in 1914 a population of 18 million, around 3 million of that Greeks + Armenians. The two wanted everything!
Nick Kouzos to Sukan Gurkaynak
The origin of Turks http://nickkouzos.com/about/ read my response in the link. Which gives a detailed response about historical roots of the Turkish nation.
Sukan Gurkaynak Both Greek and Turkish as languages are late comers to Anatolia. The Greeks Hellenized names which they found in Anatolia, the Turks did the same. Most Anatolian towns have pre-Hellenic names, most have been forgotten by now.
Sukan Gurkaynak When I was a boy, Greek was spoken by many Moslems and Greeks in Istanbul. When Makarios, Grivas and Papandreau started killing Turks on Cyprus, Turkey retaliated by deporting all citizens of Greece resident in Istanbul. If you look Turks of Western Thrace in Wikipedia, you will see there 1 million of them. 90% were forced into exile by Greek policies. There were large numbers of Moslems in what is now Greece. They were killed or forced into exile to get a ethnically pure Greece. Turkey has a population of 80 Million, of that 30 Million are people whose ancestors were forced out of their homes ion Europe. 15 Millions from the Balkans. Were they to, but go back, the majorities in the Balkans would change. My information is that until the Greek invasion of Anatolia, there was mass dying by Greeks. In that war around 3-500000 died. Not good but Moslem casualties are far heavier. Alone at Greek independence 300 000 a third of the population were killed. No one in that territory survived.
Nick Kouzos I cannot explain how there only 1500 Greeks left in Turkey while there are around 150.000 Muslims in east Thrace. Also why most Turkish towns still have Greek names. There were killings by both sides but there could be no comparisons. The total population in Greek mainland was about 4,5 million inhabitants. So the loss of 2.5 million Greeks that were killed or expelled was a much larger percentage in relation to the total population of Greeks worldwide.
Nick Kouzos The international reports and most independent sources do not mention figures of this magnitude. We all need to be more careful when we try to explain historical facts. I only present very credible sources of information such as Ambassadors. The origin of my family is from Kirkagats outside of Ismir and Karsi Yaka in peninsula of Kyzikos, My Grandfather was bitten to death by Turks in Kirkagats where there were 5,000 Greeks and 15000 of Turks. The total Greek population left with the retreating Greek Army, nobody touched a Turkish inhabitant and local Turks were crying when their Greek friends left. So it is not easy to generalize. The situation in Cyprus was much later and during a fight for independence against the British. The Turkish minority in Cyprus was 18%.
In any case I don’t want to excuse any atrocities by any party but, in General, Turks have been a militant society, this is why the middle class in Turkey consisted mainly from Greeks Armenians and Jews during 19th and 20th century, may be this is the real reason why Kemal decided to get rid of minorities. Greeks were prospering during this period and were contributing to the country not killing Turks this is absurd.
Nick Kouzos I think you should read a little more history about Cultures and Languages, just try to learn how many Greek words are included in English Italian and French. You can speak in Greek for half hour to English speaking audience and they will understand. It is obvious what Turkish people are trying to do regarding history and culture you despise everything Greek but the world is not convinced with this historic violation which is similar to SKOPIA calling Alexander the Great being a Slav And you may even call Homer as Omer.
Sukan Gurkaynak Nick Kouzos The Greek words in English were put there by Englishmen who wanted Greek words in their language. Turkish words in Japanese an Maya have always been there. We do not despise everything Greek. The Greek daily culture is not much different from ours. We are not obsessed with the ancient world like Greeks are. Greeks are also far more interested in Turkey than the other way around. We have other problems. I have no idea which language Alexander spoke. He used Greek as a language of culture which is not the same thing as being Greek. All of Northern Europe used Latin as a cultural language until the 19th century. Mussolini loved that. But he was Mussolini.
Nick Kouzos I am amazed that you don’t know what language Alexander was speaking. There was no other language spoken in the area since Homer. Alexander’s Teacher was Aristoteles. Ancient Greek was the everyday common language in what is today Greece as well in Asia
Sukan Gurkaynak As far as I know, Ancient Greek was the language spoken by elites and as such a cultural language. It was not the only language spoken in Anatolia and the Balkans. Strabo writes of other languages spoken in his time, we do not know which these were. We lived in peace with Greeks for centuries, that was destroyed when Greeks were euphoric about the Russia genocide of Moslems in Bulgaria 1876 and late by the Balkan war 1912. The invasion of Anatolia and the butchery on Cyprus did the rest. There was an article in the German Daily Frankfurter Allgemeine Zeitung explaining why Greece was given so much money which it could not pay back. They were saying Greece was from the very beginning devised as a counter-weight to Ottoman power. Pity that people who are so close were reengineered into enemies.
Nick Kouzos If we don’t know which languages were spoken is enough to demonstrate the importance of Greek at the time but as far as Alexander and Greek mainland no other languages were spoken. But bringing back the Balkan Wars and the Cyprus issue one needs to look each case separately. Butchery is a heavy word which could be used by each side according circumstances and not objectively. Invasion of the western powers in Turkey was not the decision of Greece, Greeks were supportive for the creation of new Turkey introduced by the New Turks movement but the killings against the Armenians during 1914-15 and against Greeks later was a very bad change. I have first hand personal experiences from both branches of my family. My father was born in Karsi yaka in Kyzikos where there were 42 villages and two Armenian there was no Turkish Villages at all. The village had the Greek name Peramos and was burned to the ground during 1915. My Grand Father was the head master of Peramos totally Greek Primary School. The building of the school is still there, The current inhabitants are Turks from the exchange of population from West Thrace during 1924.
A lot more was exchanged that I will be publish in PartII of the article.
More about my family history and other historical details and information about the origin of Turks and the Greek Turkish conflict is given in my blog at http://www.nickkouzos.com. I would appreciate any additional information about personal experiences from Greeks or Turks who were involved in these very dificult circomstanses.
Times for Change 