It is always very constructive to have open discussions among Greeks and Turks because one can unfold the way of thinking of each other. In this way you may discover ways to bring both parties closer together, or you may discover the abyss that exists between these two nations. The following two statements underline part of the abyss
“Just accept us as a part of ancient Greece and we will accept you as a part of the Ottoman heritage. What you say that we could not absorb Greece and Armenia are wrong. We absorbed the majority.”
“The Ottoman Empire held for 600 years, the core is still there. It took England, Russia, France, Italy, and the US over 100 years of war to reduce her to the core, the project to totally erase us from the map failed even at the point where the named states controlled the world.
MAP OF HELLENISM IN Asia Minor
Nothing for Turks. This is how Greeks justify genocide.
These are the areas that were all conquered by Turks. The mapshows the areas that existed before and after the fall of Byzantine empire Turks are everywhere because the conquered all the area. The Turks are everywhere and changed the names for example Frygia Lydia, Kappadocia, Pondos, Thrace were there are thousands of years before Turks arrived. The realquestion is why Turks conquered these areas and why they did not manage to integrate these populations during the Ottoman time. Why did they have to impose national cleansing?This is the real question. The answerexplains why Modern Turkey cannot integrate with EU.
I thought they had all been conquered by Alexander!
Alexander was before the Romans but I had already described how Alexander, in addition to strategy, he acted
Alexander went all the way to India. He was no better or worse than the Turks. Until 1945, all powers conquered all lands they could. The Turks in their day were just better at it than others
Alexander had two things, he had the culture to distribute and the intelligence to adopt local traditions and culture in such a way that he was loved and admired as a god. He became an Egyptian God. Even the Romans were so influenced by Greek culture that adopted many aspects in art philosophy to an extend that they created a Greek Byzantine Eastern Roman Empire. The Byzantines integrated many nations that adopted language and religion that was ahead of medieval time in science and culture. The problem with Ottomans is that they did not manage to integrate within their empire and way of life the local ethnicities. Instead of integrating, Ottomans had to apply national cleansing in order to survive. It is a matter of give and take, which is the difference of Alexander and the Hellenistic period. The Ottomans had nothing to give in exchange to gain full integration or absorption. This is proven over the years and Historical facts. The Turks had militancy and absorbed Persian culture and Arab religion.
If, as a Turk, you do not appreciate what is the difference between what Hellenistic period contributed to the world and Asia up to India and North Africa even to Romans and if you do not understand the real reasons why an Empire collapsed under the Turks you will never understand the current events and the ties of Greece with West, neither the problem between Greece and Turkey.
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The Ottoman Empire held for 600 years, the core is still there. It took England, Russia, France, Italy, and the US over 100 years of war to reduce her to the core, the project to totally erase us from the map failed even at the point where the named states controlled the world. The Hellenistic period was ok but by now over for 2000 years!
I don’tdisagree but you are missing my points. I am not saying that Turkey is not a powerful country I am talking about the reason Why failed to do what Alexander and Byzantines did. It is a historical fact that Turkey had to apply national cleansing to survive. The fall of Byzantine empire fall for a specific reason and I was trying to make you think why this empire that existed for 1300 years was destroyed. This is not to reduce the military strength of Turks, but to make you think out of the Turkish thinking and look at history in a wider sense. I would be delighted if the Ottomans had managed to integrate Greeks Armenians and Jews into the Empire. This would have been a great Middle land empire, but they failed, may be for religious or culturalreasons, whatever reason it is great pity.
- How long did Alexander’s Empire lasted beyond his death? 3 days? The Ottoman Empire only did ethnic cleansing when Greeks and Armenians were trying to erase us from the map. Maybe you people should think about that
Listen to the film you sent me about Greek genetics, above.
We remember the Greek invasion and the atrocities. I understand, they did not think of us as their fellow beings.
Nick Kouzos
I don’t disclaim that atrocities have happened during the invasion of Greek army in Turkey. You have always excused Turkish atrocities as a just reaction due to the Greek revolution during 1821. Only in Chios 50.000 Greeks were murdered, just in the island, innocent people women and children, an event that socked Europe. There is no comparison of atrocities made over 400 years to what a regular army could do. There is no conclusive evidence to the extent of these alleged atrocities, which, by the way, I believe have happened, but there is no comparison.
My point of view is that as an Empire you had two options, either to integrate and absorb us as a conquering entity or eliminate us. Alexander integrated, in 10 years multiple civilizations and was adored as god and he was loved, and his culture survived till today with no ethnic cleansing and was admired, while Turkey destroyed a unique culture in 600 years. Turkey has not approached West which is based on classical Greek principles of democracy and other cultural issues that survived till today, as western civilization.
If Turkey could have integrated Greeks, Armenians and others you wouldn’t have to destroy them. Thanks for letting us live even today.
It will be difficult to compare Hellenistic period with Ottoman period in terms of cultural contribution to the world even if that was done 2000 years ago.
Turkey could have absorbed Greece and Armenia and Assyrians if it could present higher culture.This is what has been happening in the world history all along.
Greek genetics and spread of Hellenism – video
DAILYMOTION.COM
Greek genetics and spread of Hellenism – video Dailymotion
Just accept us as a part of ancient Greece and we will accept you as a part of the Ottoman heritage. What you say that we could not absorb Greece and Armenia are wrong. We absorbed the majority.
This is not so, you have applied force and ethnic cleansing, there is no way, at all to accept Ottoman practices and culture.
I hope Turkey will eventually accept the rules that 153 countries have accepted. Turkey stands out on its own since it admires Attila and Barbarossa. Now is the chance forTurkey to join the international community.
Greece has forgotten the brutality that Turkey has practiced to diminish our nation. It is now the turn forTurkey to stop its monolithic and imperialistic approach.
It is unbelievable that you ask me to accept that Turkey is part of Ancient Greece. I am thinking all this time and I cannot understand the way of thinking. Greece has been fighting Persians and later Arabs for two thousand years. The conflict has been going on for cultural and religious reasons. The years that followed led to the revolution and the repercussions that followed divided our nations to an extend that the images produced were impossible. Then we had to face Cyprus and the extinction of last Greeks during 1955. Nobody was left in Turkey.
The plan was concluded with partitioning Cyprus. Now we must face threats for Dodecanese and Turkish Blue Fatherland, what type of heritance are you talking about? The Byzantine Empire was conquered y Turks and 2.5 million Greeks were killed or made refugees. The Turkish image for Greeks is the worst possible. The Greek government banned films made for this period. The stories about atrocities and the way Greeks suffered after the defeat of the Greek army and the atrocities during 1914 and 1923 cannot be described. How can you ask me to accept that Turkey is the continuation of Ancient Greece?
I here under give you the address on YOUTUBE that, if you want you can see to get an idea of the image of Turkey Greek refugees passed to the Greek public. This film was banned from general distribution. The film is in Greek language, but you don’t have to speak Greek to get the message. It starts with a parody of what the Greeks of Smyrna did demonstrating the stupid nationalism, but the film goes further describing what the Turkish Mob, the irregulars, Tsetes and the official Turkish army did as well as the description of the behavior of allied forces. You don’t have to see all the film, but you get an idea of the image that Greeks have for the Turks of this period.
YOUTUBE.COM
Η Απαγορευμένη ταινία: «Η καταστροφή της Σμύρνης 1922» του Νίκου Κούνδουρου
Η Απαγορευμένη ταινία: «Η καταστροφή της Σμύρνης 1922» του Νίκου Κούνδουρου
Listen to the film you sent me about Greek genetics, above.
We remember the Greek invasion and the atrocities. I understand, they did not think of us as their fellow beings.
Nick Kouzos
I don’t disclaim that atrocities have happened during the invasion of Greek army in Turkey. You have always excused Turkish atrocities, as a just reaction due to the Greek revolution of 1821. Only in Chios 50.000 Greeks were murdered, just in the island, innocent people, women and children, an event that socked Europe. There is no comparison of atrocities made over 400 years to what a regular army could have done. There is no conclusive evidence as to the extent of these alleged atrocities, which by the way I believe have happened, yet there is no comparison.
Times for Change 